Mr-Sheen

They certainly don't like it on PW.

Im sure most gay men would wretch at the thought of rodgering a sweaty hairy country type so don't panic.

Being bisexual is also not a choice. It is equally feasible to find both genders attractive as it is to find the opposite or same gender.

Bye bye Nigel although 18% swing to UKIP is very impressive! I feel sorry for everyone that voted UKIP, i don't agree with their policies but with such a huge share of the vote and nothing to show for it, it shows something is seriously wrong with the voting system.

Its being whispered that its going to be Yvette cooper....

Me too.

I don't know if it is an apple problem or not, but my macbook becomes unbelievably hot when i try to use Skype.

Gordon, i have a masters of chemistry, i have worked in the medical industry for the last 3 years. Before you tell me how well educated i am, its probably best you ask about my education beforehand. If anybody looks ill educated, it would be yourself. Your blatant refusal to acknowledge the academic studies i have posted shows nothing other than ignorance and stubbornness to accept the truth. They aren't exactly the qualities of the enlightened person you like to pretend you are. I have thought of the pressure on fieldsports. Hence why i felt the need to put a representation across that not everybody who participates fieldsports are vengeful, violent individuals who would get satisfaction from the death of another person. Fair enough welsh1 Im going to leave this thread as it is. I have made my point. Im sure you will enjoy having the last word gordon.

Why would be in trouble? The trouble with finding research regarding Indonesia is that it has relatively few universities, let alone ones that would publish research that would undermine its own corrupt government. Many universities oversea's don't have the funding to research their own social criminology let alone another countries, so research regarding the death penalty from any credible sources must be considered first, as opposed to your own hugely flawed logic that by killing two drug dealers, you will have two less, as they will immediately be replaced by other people in dire situations looking to make money, the cycle continues. It may be garbage in your mind, but obviously being Gordon R of pigeon watch entitles you to a deeper understanding of criminology that academics that have studied this field all of their life. PS Gordon, executing two prisoners is a disgrace. What i said to Harnser is an opinion, one which i am entitled to. it may be emotive, but would you please consider how this would read to somebody from outside the forum. It very much comes across that somebody with access to firearms is callous, and has little care for the suffering of others. This is clearly not something that we as a community want to portray, especially with the pressure that is on fieldsports as it is. Welsh1, please just consider how this would look if somebody from outside the forum read what was posted there. We no longer support the death penalty in this country, and we used to. Things have moved on.

To think that the anyone in their right mind would issue a firearm to somebody that would openly admit they would gleefully watch somebody die is unreal. I seriously think you need counselling and a visit from your constabulary.

Gordon, the studies are relevant and facts are clear, the death penalty does not deter crime, hence why people are still smuggling drugs in Indonesia. When the country is run on bribes, what legitimacy is there to the sentences handed out by the judges? None. Its quite simple, you are putting people to death without a fair trial, surely you can see that is wrong?

People are allowed to have their own opinions, and as you said, they might be right or wrong. A long time ago people were of the opinion that the earth was flat, but the consensus changed because a few people challenged that opinion, so i would hope with the facts that are available regarding the death penalty, people might one day see that it doesn't work and change the opinion that they have. Im not forcing my opinion on anyone, I'm just promoting the facts regarding the issue. Well without do-gooders, nothing good gets done.

So if the judge was to take a bribe, then there was clearly no fair trial. No fair trial and the access to no legal representation wasn't exactly going to give them any chance to state what case they might of had.

No obviously not as you can pass judgment without knowing any facts about me. I think its very dangerous taking the 'they were criminals so it didn't matter' stance, I'm sure at some point you have probably broken the speed limit, which would make you a criminal, and in the eyes of people like you, it wouldn't be a great loss if you copped it. However I'm sure your family would disagree. I accept that they have their own laws and i won't be able change it, doesn't mean i can't fundamentally disagree with them. However if i listened to you it would seem I'm not allowed an opinion. Clearly caring. Gordon, i think its quite patronising to enter the conversation with accusing me of not letting the facts cloud my opinion. so please don't take the moral high ground. The part about killing police officers is irrelevant, the research concludes that the death penalty does not act as a deterrent, which is the point. One study is dates, however the 2009 study is clearly not. heres another in date study https://math.dartmouth.edu/~lamperti/my%20DP%20paper,%20current%20edit.htm The number of studies that show the same results are remarkable, yet there are very few that say go against these view's, but don't let that change your mind.

I understand that the law is their's and its not for any of us to change, but it would be nice to change public opinion with regards to punishment, especially capital punishment in countries such as Indonesia as it could make a difference to so many lives. I don't think people living in few of their government is ever a good thing!