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Hey Harry, I'm in the same boat. Business commitments, young daughter, wife, syndicate and dogs. I generally find some free time and go and do what I can. This often means that I don't get to go when conditions are perfect, but I get out into the countryside and make the most of it. I've yet to go to a shoot day this year! Chris

Thanks for that!

Bazooka, this is where I get confused and I apologise if this is glaringly obvious to those in the know. Say I walk the dog over to the fields on the lead, find a suitable spot and cast her off. After a few mins drop a ball and guide her into it. Not wanting to over do this, is that her hunting done for the week? Or every other day? If so, what do I do with her the rest of the time, let her do what she wants? Get her to do a couple of retrieves (again this is something that I try and do only once or twice a week). Or is she just going to spend 99% of her time out with me either walking to heel or on the lead? I'm not asking in a sarcastic manner, I'm really not sure what to do. I've reduced our sessions out on walks down to 20mins twice a day (on the advice of Graham).

It's a minefield this dog training business! I'm finding it a difficult balance, keeping the dog stimulated/interested and in control. No doubt due to my complete inexperience. I was in Oxford recently and went to see Graham Watkins (as he has a rabbit pen, which my instructor does not) and it is he who suggested I really tighten up her pattern and get her focusing more on me. I'll take her up to one of my permissions tonight and see if we can flush some rabbits and get her excited. Thanks for the comments.

Yeah, I've ended up ordering one. It's roomy, four wheel drive and when you're saving that sort of money, it's going to have to be seriously pants for me to upset.

I love your responses Bazooka!

Well Lucy is doing very nicely now. After the training session with my instructor and his dog a couple of months back, she is a "keen" retriever. I've started to work on a bit of steadiness in the last week or so which is going well. I am now working on sending her left right and back over small distances (I don't think she quite gets it yet unless she can see the dummy). I've also been working on getting her to hunt much closer to me which is going well. However, after about 30s to a min of absolutely all out hunting, she slows right down and starts munching grass as she trots along. She is still sniffing about and will still bring me things if I have hidden them (she will only do this once or twice though after which she ignores them until I touch them) but eating eating eating! Is this something I should be stopping? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Chris

I was asking a similar question a couple of months ago and solved the problem with a cup of water. My ESS would howl when I put her back in the kennel. When she started howling I would appear at the kennel and throw the cup of water at her then turn around and walk away. It has worked reasonably well. She now occasionally has a cry when she puts her self to bed, but it's once a fortnight for 4 seconds rather than every time she goes back in for 15 mins. The thing I was most worried about was affecting our relationship or her confidence, but my horrible neighbours meant I had to act. I don't think it has affected our bond either because she is always very pleased to see me and happy what ever we're doing.

As a company car user, I am struggling to think of a reason not to go for the PHEV, should save me almost £3000 a year not to mention savings on fuel. Anyone had a go in one?? Chris

What does a 60yrd zero on a .22lr translate to on the HMR? Just asking out of curiosity really.

I'd love to do this. Sounds great to me! Let me know if you have any dates/locations in mind and I'll see if I can get involved. I'm based in Cardiff.

We're going to be doing exactly that on Sunday!

Bazooka, no its neither of those, I have a great deal of respect for my trainer, I just enjoy posting online, listening to peoples opinions on subject that interest/affect me and wanted to hear about other peoples experiences of using the technique he suggested. You've posted in a similar vein on other questions I've asked and I mentioned then that I may or may not take the advice given, but the more I learn the happier I am. Further more, I naively hope that other people who don't post or don't want to ask stupid questions could learn from my mistakes or my questions. Anyway, to the training! I have to say I was amazed with the way Lucy behaved! She was unquestionably more interested in retrieving with another dog around, and brought back canvas dummies for the first time ever! She still isn't mad keen (like my instructors dog, who at the same age will choose a game of fetch over a good sniff around!) but I've been told I have nothing to worry about, she knows what to do and should only get keener as I (very slowly) progress. I'm planning on bumping my training quota up to 2 or 3 times a month, because I feel a lot happier and more confident with the dog, after them. However, he has identified a potentially more serious problem and given me advice on how to stop it. Chasing birds in flight. Twice when on walks with me last week I lost control of her at the worst possible moment. The first occasion I'd just let her off the lead at the top of a little hill down towards a field when two ducks flew in about 30 yards from us to land in a big puddle and she was gone, right on their tails! I kept her much closer subsequently, but on Friday, I forgot my whistle and stupidly let her have a little run around, planning to practice voice commands. Off she went again, this time following a pigeon. I could see the other side of the field pigeons lifting up all over the place. With no whistle, and her deaf to my expletives, all I could do was wait for her to come back...doh! Subsequently, anything that flew over she tried to go after, including on Sunday in our training session. However, I'm now the proud owner of a 15m training lead and will be keeping her on that for a while (as per the advice of my trainer). Also, every time anything has caught her attention flying/moving near her I've been sitting her up and in the garden this morning she did so without instruction when a blackbird flew over. To summarise, I'm delighted with the results of making her jealous! Having her come back to me with a canvas dummy that she wouldn't have even looked at before was one of the best feelings!! Now I need to work on keeping her nice and close and her steadiness to game. Bazooka, I'll give it a couple of days before I post my next strange question

Bazooka, not entirely sure why you care so much about the feelings of my trainer? I want to know if anyone has had any experience of making a dog jealous and if it has been successful. Feel free not to respond to my posts.

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. The idea is (I think) for me and the instructor to head out for a training session with both of our dogs, his being a keen retriever. My dog will get to see his dog retrieve tennis balls and will hopefully watch and learn. If she sees how much fun the trainers dog is having she MIGHT change her mind on retrieving and want to get involved. I guess there are a couple of potential outcomes. Firstly and hopefully she will get jealous, want to play and then change her mind on fetching tennis balls. Secondly she might change her mind on retrieving when other dogs are around. Thirdly, she might not give two hoots and just want to go sniffing (or chasing birds as they fly over) which is the situation I'm in currently so won't be much of a problem, just back to the drawing board. Worst case scenario, she sees the other dog retrieve, thinks what a load of rubbish I'm never ever going to do that and undoes the work I've been doing with her in the garden, which I will have to redo. However I don't think that's likely. This is my first ever attempt at gun dog training and yes I'm probably doing a significant proportion of it completely wrong, but that's one of the ways you learn. If at the end of the day I get a dog I can shoot over I will be one seriously happy chappy. If I don't I will put it in the pot of knowledge and try again. The first breeder I ever spoke to asked me what I wanted from the dog and ended the conversation saying "remeber it's your first attempt at training a gun dog, it prpbably won't go perfectly". He was probably right! Because it's a forum.

Its a tricky one. My dog currently gets 45mins to an hour at 7 and the same again at 7 in the evening. I try to come home at lunch as well and let her have a scoot around the garden, but that's not something I do everyday. I would have thought something a bit bigger would be required for two, but most people seem to think that it's enough space.

Having another lesson with the dog trainer this weekend. The plan is to take out one of his springers who will retrieve all day long and see if Lucy gets jealous/learns what to do. Anyone had any experience using this type of technique? Does it actually work? Chris

Only have a springer at the moment, but the plan is to get a lab or another springer one day. I have just moved house and I'm planning on putting in a new "better looking" kennel in the very small garden, and figured I might as well get one that will do the job for them both when I have them. I've spoken to a couple of manufacturers and have had a fair bit of advice. One advised me that their standard single kennel which is 1.2x2.4m with a sleeping box (that they can get on top of) would be plenty for the two, given that they don't generally exercise in their run anyway. Spoken to a couple of mates who agree. I guess it seems a bit small to me. What to the pigeon watch massive think??

Thanks Stumpy, I did wonder about that, but by the time I get to her, she has dropped the ball and gone off sniffing elsewhere and it did "work" in the end, so hopefully her mind is off retrieving, on sniffing and then thinking, uh oh, what have I done wrong?! Thanks for the advice though, I will proceed with caution. Any of the experienced handlers have any thoughts on this?

Well this morning I tried the hunting as a reward for a returned rabbit skin ball with success. I took her to a car park near me, sat her up and threw it out, letting her go for it straight away. She chased, picked up, ran about half way back to me then dropped it and went off sniffing. Walked over quickly, held her by the scruff and brought her back to me to try again, same thing exactly, so put her on the lead and walked on. After another ten mins, I tried again, same result first time, but when I went and got her brought her back and sat her up, she chased and brought back to me! I then gave her loads of praise then let her run off and sniff to her hearts content. Will try again tomorrow afternoon and see what happens! Progress though!! Thanks for the help guys! I will keep you updated.

This is hitting my nail right on the head! Lots of what I read and watch say give a retrieve as a reward, but Lucy couldn't care less! I am going to try treat for recall, thanks for that.

??

Yes, that's a very good point. However, my post is specifically a search for ideas for training with Lucy beyond sit/heel/recall because she isn't so keen on retrieving. Retrieving has become the focus of the subsequent replies and it's all really useful information. No one has given any stupid advice like chuck balls all day until it picks up on what you want it to do, but it has given me lots of ideas of what I can try. It doesn't mean I will try everything, or that I will persist with things after I've tried them a couple of times if they don't seem to work. It was just the type of discussion I wanted from my OP. If anyone can help me make sit/recall fun (not only impatient, but lacking in creativity) or has any other non retrieve training ideas, that would be great too!

I haven't read any of these posts and thought the poster thinks the dog is at fault. As suggested by my trainer, she is quite possibly not a keen retriever. Some are some aren't, but it's something that hopefully I will be able to bring out of her. I've only had her two months, and I very much doubt she had any training at all before I came along, let alone retrieving training. Unfortunately Bazooka, I'm probably going to keep asking questions despite continuing my training with Alan and although I appreciate everyone's input, nobody has to. Thanks for all the useful posts guys. My plan is to try and focus on my mind state with Lucy for a while and just try and get her having fun. I have another lesson in about a months time and we'll see where we are then!