Old farrier
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Posts posted by Old farrier
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Just now, Conor O'Gorman said:
Terry Behan is the BASC staff member interviewed in the podcast in the OP. Presume you have not listened to it yet. Here it is again:
https://theshoothubpodcast.podbean.com/e/lead-shot-latest/
Is he a qualified gunsmith?
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2 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
The evidence is conclusive for the impact of lead shot on birds as proven by the research in the UK and worldwide and the GWCT who are the shooting communities' scientific experts agree the evidence is conclusive. Maybe its baffling to you, someone on an internet forum, because you are just wrong. Nothing wrong with being wrong when one admits one is wrong.
To be fair GWCT did there study on wildfowl and wetlands
a different environment and a different feeding pattern
the proof that lead kills wildfowl came from penning up ducks and introducing a massive amount of lead shot so they had no option but to eat it
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32 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
That sounds like good day out and informative for all - when you have a venue and dates let me know. We could put the world to rights in the pub afterwards and be nice to put some faces to usernames.
Is that not what is going on here?
Due to my location it’s impossible here however I’m sure you or your organisation know of a steel friendly clay ground
As for the pub afterwards that’s a definite no I don’t hold with alcohol and guns or driving on the same day
a civilised cup of tea and cake maybe
how many Basc employees would you want to field in the steel team?
im pretty confident that I can find enough to match your numbers
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34 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
You would be best talking to Terry Behan. It will really help you.
I think its a fantastic listen, very enlightening. I don't insist anything. Its my opinion. I have no plans for any question on the form.
Who’s Terry behan?
perhaps you could enlighten me or point me in the direction of his workshop -
11 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
I think it was about accepting there was conclusive evidence on the impact of lead shot on birds - if you can't admit the problem it makes a solution less likely - we were all in denial up to that point - some still are!
Maybe listen to the podcast on how patterning one's gun makes the difference.
Maybe listen to the podcast - this is all covered.
Well I spent a lot of money and time getting my gun bored and regulated to throw the appropriate patterns for my own type of shooting
I have asked repeatedly over the years for some advice and information on what to have them rebored to to get the same pattern no one can give me the information
so what is the answer?
has anyone achieved a cylinder pattern?
Or a 1/4 chokewhat cartridge do I have to use in non lead bio wad that’s not going to be obsolete in a year
the answer to this isn’t ask a gunsmith or ask the cartridge manufacturer of have multi chokes and experiment
please note I’m not the only person who will have to foot the bill for all the choke altering regulating not to mention the cartridges and time pattern testing
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22 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Maybe set up a web poll if PW has functionality for that? Not sure though how you can be for or against something that is voluntary in the first place!
How about setting up a lead versus steel shooting competition
Basc steel
pw lead
PW steel for those members who think it’s better
obviously Basc won’t have any staff members that haven’t moved away from lead
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I understand from some previous posts that some of the biggest driven shoots have switched to non lead cartridges in order to sell assured lead free game
do you have a number on this please?
also if possible could you be kind enough to tell us what if any steps are being taken to remove the lead that is already on the ground and how they propose to remove it to prevent any ingestion by birds?
iv asked this question because
for over 20 years I’ve been along with everyone else using non toxic for ducks and geese
yet every year I still hear the tens of thousands of birds die each year from ingestion of lead shot where is it coming from?
So with my thinking if it’s a problem and going to be for the next 20 yearsit’s either got to be removed or it’s totally pointless expensive way of achieving nothing
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12 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Back in the day we had all sorts of toxic chemicals being lauded and used to improve food production and those suggesting that this was impacting on insects and birds were ridiculed as antis. And now we know the truth thanks to GWCT and other orgs. Rethink and unlearn. GWCT advises us to move away from lead shot so let's not be the dinosaurs that prevent a sustainable future for shooting.
There’s plenty of chemicals used now obviously not toxic 🙄
however they kill all the bugs insects and caterpillars on the crops because people won’t buy a cabbage or cauliflower with a caterpillar in it
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4 minutes ago, 8 shot said:
Has any these Organisations looked at how much land in GB is actually shot over. I believe i've read somewhere 75% or there about is farmland and woodland so would it be safe to say at best 30% would actually have lead on it, and most arable land would be moved every year for drilling hence buried or mixed into the top 6", woodland it would be buried under the foliage in the fall. So in my opinion a very small risk
And mine
most arable land is turned over and cultivated before the birds nest
probably the biggest threat to wild game birds is farming practice sprays planting methods and predators
not lead shot
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22 minutes ago, mellors said:
Simple really you started the posts so just answer the questions fully and honestly if you can and move on.
Little screen shot here 🤔
beginning to hope everyone will be singing from the same hymn sheet
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Anyone got any keepers diary dvd lurking in the back of the cupboard
looking for the set if possible
pm with prices and postage costs please
many thanks in advance
all the best
OF
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29 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Fair enough, sorry about that. If you run the podcast through an online transcript service it will generate the text onto your computer. An hour of podcast is a fair amount of text but not as long as the HSE background doc you took the time to read (it took me 2 days!).
Well if you are ever around Chester or North Wales it would be nice to meet up and talk about partridge and lead shot.
I understood you have not listened to the ShootHub podcast? Here it is again:
https://theshoothubpodcast.podbean.com/e/lead-shot-latest/
I read it before you posted the link and re read it again
nothing in it relevant to the question I asked
rarely get up to marford mill nowadays
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45 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Plug in ear phones might help? Works for me!
Reading is my preferred choice
I can’t put up with the whistling and cracking
40 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:Yes, a handful, it is clear as day. Also a curious thing the handful have in common - the handful do not read or listen to updates, and refuse to engage in phone calls. BASC has shared the podcast on Facebook and Twitter open to anyone to read and comment. No complaints. BASC did a survey about the transition earlier this year - did you complete the survey? Please provide links to these other forums you mention.
I far prefer to engage face to face over a cup of tea with cake far more gentlemanly than a telephone call
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Can’t believe no one has mentioned
tin baths in front of the fire
privies down the garden
shiny izal toilet paper if you were lucky
now wash your hands 😂
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Just now, Conor O'Gorman said:
I don't understand. I had no problem listening to it. Here it is again:
https://theshoothubpodcast.podbean.com/e/lead-shot-latest/
Well you’re probably not as deaf as I am 🙄🙄🙄🙄
along with many other shooting folks
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10 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
The voluntary transition is for live quarry shooting. As awareness grows about steel shot effectiveness then perhaps more clay shooters will use it subject to club rules etc. Maybe something that @BobbyHcould comment on or ask the CPSA about? There are plenty of YouTube videos out there of people shooting clays with steel. With that in mind do listen to the podcast from the OP - lots of insights around correct patterning.
Actually there is a big difference between having a personal view and going onto a public forum posting what is being posted by a few on here about the voluntary transition. The only online content I am seeing is from a handful of PW members and the academics and Wild Justice.
I was trying to be subtle about the podcast unless it has subtitles it’s useless to me and many others
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47 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Yes, it's only for live quarry shooting with lead shot using shotguns and supported by organisations such as BASC, CA, GWCT, NGO and so on and its a voluntary move so its your choice what to do.
Ok I understand that it’s voluntary transition now hears the quandary
If steel is so good why don’t clay shooters use it ?
surely you want the best performing cartridges for shooting game birds
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1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Fair enough, its just another means of communication. At least you did take the time to look at the 2023 HSE background document and hope that helped.
No help at all I’m afraid 🙄
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3 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Nobody is talking about lead shot poisoning in humans - its the birds that are being poisoned. Nobody is talking about people dying from water in lead pipes.
In the plus side the predators are having a field day it must be so easy for them to catch the birds
leaving the rest alone
can’t listen to any podcasts I’m afraid
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3 hours ago, Gordon R said:
Konor - despite his appalling contributions on this and other threads, I still feel sorry for him. He has dug a hole and isn't bright enough to get out of it. I genuinely think he is out of his comfort zone and his depth.
Rule one
when you’re in a hole stop digging 😂
2 hours ago, Gordon R said:I would take a lot of convincing.
Many of the world’s problems are caused by bright academics
very few by country bumpkins 😂
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2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
You might let Old Farrier make his own judgement. Why do you feel the need to intervene?
I think you may be copy and pasting text from another thread. Please could you provide a link to the thread for full context?
6 hours ago, Gordon R said:Old farrier - the cited links doesn't give that information. It references some species, but lacks the promised detail.
Thanks for the info Gordon I have just finished reading it through and you are correct
no specific shot size no specific bird species other than wildfowl why they are mentioned I don’t know as there is already something in place for there protection
for Connor I don’t shop at Tesco and please don’t imply anything about the type of shooting that I participate in without asking or having no knowledge on it
for the record I shoot clays until the game season then I shoot mostly driven days usually large ones
I also belong to some wildfowl clubs enjoy the occasional day pigeon shooting along with shooting for field trials alongside weather and tides permitting getting out in my punt
not forgetting simo days corporate events and a passion for shooting small bore shotgun’s
shall I go on ?
rimfire rifles for target shooting and vermin control
centerfire rifles for shooting vermin
larger bores for deer
and larger still for hunting plains game and big game in Africa
I found your remarks ending with me buying food at Tesco rather then shooting it disappointing as I can’t see how more varied my shooting could be as for you suggesting that I was taking the moral high ground 🙄I take that was a little bit out of order on your part
or did you take it as a threat as the organisation that employs you wishes to adopt the high ground position and don’t want to be toppled
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19 minutes ago, Konor said:
You omit a third . Those that concede that if there is a problem with lead shot use it should be dealt with by minimising its impact by restricting its use where it is used the most. By doing so the effect of curtailing lead shot use could be assessed. Thus a complete lead ban on commercial shoots and a study to quantify the benefits of doing so.
It’s used the most on a clay ground and no proposals to minimise the impact on anything there
im beginning to think that a secret deal has already been negotiated with the cpsa as they have yet to comment on the matter
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31 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
I do see where you are coming from in theory but in my experience working on this topic for around 15 years I do not see the evidence of it in practice. What I have witnessed happening is that the weight of research on primary poisoning of birds (ie some bird species eating some sizes of lead shot as grit and dying or suffering sub-lethal impacts) in a range of bird species outside wetlands growing significantly enough to trigger policy reviews across Europe and wider afield seeking to mitigate those risks. The voluntary transition away from lead shot in the UK announced in 2020 by nine organisations did not trigger any of that nor give anyone more ammunition or a bigger voice.
Could you be kind enough to enlighten us
to
what specific birds are ingesting it
who conducted the research and a baseline on it would be useful information
what size shot ?
sub lethal impact? If you mean wounded or pricked birds that happens with any medium if you mean lead poisoning say so
I appreciate no data can be accurate or useful in the last few years since the onset of bird flu and the number of deaths caused by it
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9 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
I think its a matter for all game shooting regardless of the size of the shoot. Game as food is indisputably one of the key justifications for game shooting. Therefore, promoting the benefits of eating more game as a sustainable and healthy alternative to farmed meat is important. We can all play our part in that and many PW members do just that introducing shot game to family and friends.
Two campaigns are playing a role in this:
Eat Game
https://eatgame.co.uk/Eat Wild
https://www.eatwild.co/Sadly we’re a world apart on this
any game I shoot I eat
what it’s shot with isn’t a issue to me along with a lot of others
most of us don’t need to find a outlet for hundreds of pheasants or partridge at the end of the day
it’s pretty obvious that the problem is the big shoots don’t have the infrastructure in place to handle process and sell on the quantity that they shoot this occurs because they make the money from the shooting not from the shot game ( a by product of the day)
now in the last four years I haven’t noticed any increase in the advertising of game meat or anyone advertising to buy it in any quantity perhaps it’s the area I’m located maybe other members will say different 🤔
now I’m not sure about this but if you hatch a chick rear it and grow it on then kill it for the table it’s farmed not wild doesn't matter if it is a chicken or a pheasant
ShootHub Podcast - lead shot latest with BASC's Terry Behan
in General Shooting Matters
Posted
I mean qualified to bore and regulate a shotgun
to get the same pattern with steel that the gun now produces with lead