Old farrier
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Posts posted by Old farrier
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Mine is busy sitting on eggs in her nest in the yard wall
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4 hours ago, Fellside said:
Yes a good thought. However I still think small farm syndicates (circa 500 poults) are hugely important for biodiversity. We do need those as well. Often they form a wildlife oasis surrounded by an intensively farmed ‘green desert’. Personally, I really enjoy smaller days, where there is the pressure (and thrill) of making the shot count, because there isn’t a constant stream of pheasants. I don’t want to knock the big shoots, as they are an important part of our rural economy, but scaling down a little might be an idea. Reducing live quarry to the status of many targets - rather like clays - seems somehow unattractive. Ramble over.
The biggest problem with small shoots is vermin and predator control
each of the predators eat 365 days a year there is massive pressure on the 500 poults from the casual rambler blackberry pickers dog Walker the weather and predation on not only the poults but also on the feed in the cover crops along with the supplementary feeding that’s eaten by deer badgers squirrels and rats
Just my thoughts
to anyone going down this path be prepared for hard work and long days 😊
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Best of luck with the sale 😊👍
sadly nothing amongst it for me 👍
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11 hours ago, ditchman said:
to consider..........
i had my sxs barrells regulated...........using a particular name and weight and shot size of a cartridge...........it was regulated to those cartridges
if you are a cartridge tart and swap around to other fancy coloured cartridges.....your regulated barralls are not regualated anymore......ie: waste of time
stick to your cartridge that the barralls were regulated to
NOTE "regulated" usually means the alignment of barrells....but can also mean the honing of chokes to give the desired pattern with a chosen cartridge
I sent a pair of guns off to have the chokes done and regulated for my chosen cartridge when I went to collect them the gunsmith produced the pattern sheets which were good and what I wanted
he then proceeded to get out more sheets and tell me that the guns shot good patterns however the number 2 gun shot even better with 5 shot than the 6 that I requested but not the number 1 gun
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9 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:
Sorry I don't know how to tell the difference between a cunning Partridge and a stupid one!🤣
Neither do I
problem was the eggs came before the partridge before the interview 😂😂
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16 minutes ago, Konor said:
I take my hat off to you Old farrier for the work put in and the money invested. It’s a shame there are not grants that would match your spending to make such work more viable,it could transform areas of the countryside and perhaps even decrease the friction with some of the less fanatic anti fieldsports enthusiasts.👍
Thank you 😊
It won’t happen again farming practice has changed in my are
every bit of spare ground is growing for a bio plant to make gas in excess of two thousand acres all harvested before it’s ripe
the gas produced co2 is used in fizzy drinks 🤔
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6 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
That's great that you tried to get grey partridge back onto your land. It sounds like you had everything in place just not enough breeding success - which is measured by chick survival rate. Everything that reduces that rate below a certain figure (namely rainfall levels at the wrong time and the right insects at the right density at the right time) means that the population goes extinct over time. If you are still keen on trying again the GWCT and their local groups will be a great help. The key issue is the source of birds - they need to be ones that still have the ability in the wild not only to pick good nesting sites, but to lay eggs and hatch off the chicks, and to know what to do next - both parents help out here. Happy to have a chat on the phone about all this if of
would you be chatting as a private member of the forum ?
or
as a member of the Basc team who avoided answering my questions earlier on this thread
just saying 🙄I disagree the weather was fine I had good results with the pheasant and red legs the problem was the raptors
Im not inclined to put the time effort or money in as I’ll probably get some do Gooder telling me I can’t shoot them because there rare or I’m using the wrong gun cartridges wads or dog
im well aware of the habitat required for their nesting and success in breeding and am grateful for the help received from members of the game conservancy council along with the time spent on the project along with the cooperation of the farmer and his staff and the kind landowners In Cambridge and Lincolnshire that spend their time giving me advice and support
when i reared the first 200 it cost £80 a hundred in electricity to incubate the eggs brood them under lamps ready to go outside with a shelter with gas heaters add in the gas chick crumbs pellets ect and the cost spiral not counting the cost of the pens and release pens the whole thing is a expensive way to get a healthy population of peregrine falcons
note I also reared many broods under bantams
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23 minutes ago, Fellside said:
It is an interesting read - and thank you.
My take on this piece. Some of the author’s assertions may (may!?) be true, however they are poorly evidenced as the list of references demonstrates. What we need is very robust (non biased) review of clean evidence by an external body. This task could / should have been undertaken by the HSE. Unfortunately they have proven to be biased and incapable of evaluating the science.
In the ideal world, no authority should proceed to impose lead shot restrictions in the absence of any good contemporary science - free from biased influence.
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14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:
Think of the wee chicks man !
Awesome 👏
back to English partridge
I quite like them as there are virtually none in my area
I made enquiries regarding the possibility of reintroducing them to my area with positive responses
dually sourced eggs and incubated and hatched 200 chicks
made pens and with landowners permission and encouragement we slowly released them into suitable areas around the 2000 acres of his farm appropriate covers suitable crops with high feed value and supplementary feeding stations we also drilled the corn with a wider setting on the rows and straight line planting no zig zags
I mowed the south facing slopes of the grass down land ten meter wide strips every ten metres across it ( contour mowing) to leave long grass for nesting and cover for any birds short grass for chicks if any
I installed a massive amount of tunnel traps to keep rats and other predators at bay along with strong fox control measures
we did this for 3 years total reared and released 600
none were shot in this period of time
most-fell to predators the biggest culprit was the peregrine falcon as the English partridge is a little smaller than the red leg that’s to heavy for the peregrine to take
five years on there’s probably five left
pretty sure none died from ingesting lead shot
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42 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:
Of course, but that's when you have the luxury of using lead. Steel shot just accentuates the shortcomings of the smaller gun.
Steel/tss duplexes in the .410 may be good enough to keep the gun going. A few grams of tss 10's or 9.5's won't add a huge amount of cost to the cartridge, then small steel pellets can fill out the pattern.
A good solution and working well however it’s with a tps wad so that’s the next thing to overcome
I doubt that a mere 2.5 million cartridges would make it viable for the manufacturer to go down the biowads route would 45 tons of lead annually and nationally with a fibre wad make much difference would the fibre outweigh the plastic impact on the ground
remember the HSE are only looking at lead not plastic wads it’s BASC that’s asking for both
id go for lead and fibre over non lead and plastic wad but that’s just me 😊
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All choke is bored regulated to throw a specific pattern at a specific distance currently done with lead
if you are future proofing your gun for the use of steel you may well find that you need them more open to get a similar pattern
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There manufactured in 410 but cost and availability is a issue plastic wad though
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Well after many questions with no answer I have formed a opinion
game birds shot with lead are toxic however venison shot with lead isn’t 🤔
lead shot at game birds damages the flora and fauna
but lead shot at clay pigeon doesn’t 🤔
spent shot kills wee baby partridge but only on a game shoot not a clay ground 🤔
game shot with steel will sell better and be worth more than the cost of the cartridge there will be no surplus 🤔
bio wads are good and disappear if you pick them up and put them in a commercial composter🤔 but it’s not important to use them at a clay ground plastic wads that you don’t really need are ok
the major organisations want you to use a lead alternative but haven’t thought about what to do with the existing lead cartridges 🤔
the voluntary transition has rendered thousands of guns obsolete and devalued many more 🙄
probably missed a few points here but it’s a start 🙄 -
Ok one last question
even though you seem to have missed every one so far
at the end of the voluntary 5 year period if the game shooting / live quarry shooters decide they don’t want to change
what then happens ?
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8 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
I have answered your questions. They may not be the answers you are after and that is something perhaps to reflect on before incorrectly stating you have had no answers. If its a debate you are after you can always phone me, but you choose not to. You perhaps would not be so unpleasant to me on the phone or face to face as you are from the comfort of your keyboard in anonymity. I think the tone and content of your recent comments is perhaps below the high standards you expect of others. You might reflect on that also.
And around in circles we will go. You would be better putting a question to the AGM if you wish to challenge BASC's policy on lead ammunition - as that's a matter for BASC Council and its elected members. Would you be willing to do that?
Err 🤔
your a representative of a major organisation posting information on a public forum member’s expectations are that you are professional in your replies
as for the public on the forum many of the members don’t have degrees or university education so in my opinion you should be able to answer the questions of the uneducated public
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To make this voluntary transition easier for its members is there an option of a buy back scheme ?
or maybe a one for one swap plastic wad or lead cartridges for non lead bio wad cartridges ?
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54 minutes ago, Rewulf said:
Konor and Old farrier ect have given good solid posts and reasoned discussion, Mr o Gorman has lapsed back into abusive, patronising mode, THATS what usually gets the thread closed.
Thank you for your reply 😊👍
sadly the voice of shooting has chosen not to respond to any of the points I have raised 🤔🙄
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9 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Thanks for having a look and getting back to me. The GWCT references are but the tip of the iceberg on impacts of various bird species eating lead shot as grit (the evidence goes back 100 years), but for wild greys it does concentrate the mind as regards the cost-benefits of let's say shooting a carrion crow or magpie using a lead shot cartridge over an area of brood rearing cover to reduce the risk of the partridge chicks from predation - when that shot may have eliminated the predator but has just produced a fresh minefield of lead shot on the ground for those wee partridge chicks to eat as grit and then die from.
That’s supposition the carrion crow or magpie may not have been shot
In fact they were probably trapped in a Larson so the problem hasn’t arisen
are you aware of the age partridge chicks start taking grit ? To assist in the digestion of the main food they eat ( insects)
let’s get real about this the big commercial shoots release millions of birds and they are shot for sport not for harvest of wild game the economics say you can’t hatch a egg rear it to maturity and shoot it for £1 a brace
they don’t rear them they buy them in as chicks or poults and they don’t live long enough to die from lead poisoning
if as you say you want to take lead out of game meat you need to stop lead bullets for deer and probably rabbits along with lead shot
As for wild birds there’s plenty to kill them without including lead shot in the equation
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25 minutes ago, Lampwick said:
Is that in an estuary? we are not allowed to fish in the estuaries or harbours here
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Nice looking dog
always fancied one but my lifestyle isn’t suitable to have one sadly
😊👍
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I rarely use more than two ounces nowadays on a light rod but to be fair I only target bream and bass
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1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Yes it will. As awareness and understanding of the risks to birds from lead shot widens perhaps those operating temporary clay pigeon shoots in the open countryside may consider voluntarily moving away from the use of lead shot in those scenarios.
So in effect you’re saying it’s the scattering of lead shot over a area that is the problem not the use in shooting game birds specifically
If as you say clay grounds can manage the risk ( how ) then surely game shoots can manage the risk in the same manner
personally think game shoots moved away from single use plastic wads years before this proposed voluntary transition
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2 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
I value your feedback (I really do) but the tone of your recent comments is rather disappointing, and yes you are targeting BASC with statements such as "What will happen if BASC’s voluntary phase out fails, as it inevitably will?"
You got it wrong for 4 years on the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting by conflating it with a ban - moreover you saw it as a ban beyond lead shot with your questions about .22lr ammunition. It's ok to get it wrong. There is lots of misinformation on the whole topic.
So I am not sure there really is anything further to discuss - as pointed out by @BobbyH
I get it that you don't support the voluntary transition, and as stated earlier I respect your viewpoint and reasoning, but please take some personal responsibility for your choice on that - especially the fact that you keep stating that lead is toxic so you must therefore realise that the lead shot you continue to use for your game shooting is impacting on various species of birds.
The same lead shot used at a clay pigeon shoot will equally impact various species
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3 hours ago, djrwood said:
Thanks guys for all the replies. I’m excited about giving it a go. I enjoy coarse fishing and spinning for pike in the winter.
Any tips on what bait to use? Don’t suppose my sweet corn or maggots will be much use in the deep blue!
Just use a carp rod 1o hook and a 2 oz weight bit of squid mackerel or sandeel easy running ledger and cast it out to the third breaker
don’t complicate it
enjoy your fishing try to pick a tide in daylight to start with to make it easier to get the feel of it
BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry
in General Shooting Matters
Posted
Me to if they can’t drive to a feed station it’s not done
having been there and got some good results and good returns I know how hard it is
the better the team the easier it is
Bang on
I rarely take a gun in daylight my hands are always carrying tools or fence posts feeders drinkers wire or something to repair something 😂