Konor

😂 Sorry for laughing 😆

Sorry Conor I’m not ploughing through that. I’m guessing that your inability to provide a figure or range of figures indicates that you do not have one so my initial point that you are unable to provide a figure to show the impact of the lead ingestion quoted in the studies provided remains. Straight question Do you have such a figure ?

I think I covered that in a previous post ,if you look back you’ll be able to read my reasoning That would get my approval I think New Zealand and some states in America enforce such restrictions. Edit to add Wild game can only be shot for personal consumption in USA and cannot be offered for sale and Recreationally shot game birds cannot be sold in New Zealand

That’s just as well Conor because there has been no evidence shown so far to support such change . Following on from that the “ongoing voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting based on the evidence” What is that evidence ? Is it the same evidence you have been pedalling here that fails to quantify any impact of the ingestion of lead shot ? Repetition does not turn opinion into fact. If you read over my posts you will note that the purpose of my posting is not to reiterate that I disagree with the voluntary transition if there is one constant it is that despite your post count on this thread I am drawing attention to the fact that you have yet to answer one simple question where is the evidence that quantifies the impact of lead ingestion on game bird populations

1977 I saw Blondie play at Strathclyde University students union and 1978 Ian Dury at the Apollo Glasgow the night I met my wife to be. Great memories Scully life was simpler then.

I saw ELO around four years back, one of the best concerts I’ve been to.Jeff Lynnes voice was still as strong as when I first heard him sing Mr Blue Sky when it first came out

There’s similar but I think deeper engraving pattern on one of the B25 models , it definitely has the capercaillie in a similar pose.

It’s that kind of common sense that’s apparently not so common nowadays OF.

B125 Grade D 👍 If you do a Google search of that model you should find one for sale at Derek Lee Gunsmiths for £1495 a bit rarer than the lower grade B125s I’ve seen one in the past and remembered the engraving pattern in your photographs

All well and good Conor but you are flogging a dead horse here. Potential is hardly a scientific basis for change and you can’t alter the fact that none of the information you have shared measures the impact of lead ingestion. The politics surrounding the matter has no influence on the scientific data that should be used as evidence to establish a reason for introducing further legislation and that scientific evidence hasn’t been produced.Remember No Science No Change ,it’s not that long ago. You seem to be falling over yourself to show good cause for eliminating the use of lead shot , do you think that is appropriate representation that is in the best interests of BASC members given the lack of supporting evidence to justify any further lead shot restrictions I don’t know how familiar you are with a shotgun , I’ve done a fair bit of wildfowling in my time and my 3 1/2 inch magnum that I use with steel shot may be adequate on the foreshore but you can’t compare the gun or the load to the side by side and steel 2 1/2 inch loads commonly used inland. So on the basis of single percentage ingestion of lead shot figures for which you fail to provide any scientific assessment of impact on game bird populations you expect shooters to go to the expense of having their guns bored out to accept an inferior projectile commonly blamed for increased wounding or opt to use bismuth at £1.50 per cartridge. At the same time ignoring the environmental impact of producing the steel shot and having it shipped to this country. All on the flimsy excuse that there could be an as yet undefined potential risk of harm. When looking at the evidence you have submitted to the forum it’s hardly grounds for the changes proposed. The solution you are so much in favour of is simply not proportionate to the degree of harm you are able to prove in fact as stated earlier you are unable to quantify any degree of harm. As an example “ There is a growing concern about the damage lead shot causes to wildlife away from wetlands? A growing concern by whom and what scientific data are they privy to that substantiates such concern ,could you provide it ? Bureaucracy is a great provider for those that would spend their lives producing data for assessments that contribute little if any improvement to the general population. It would not surprise me if large salaries and expense accounts are justified by those tasked with making decisions based on evidence as flimsy as you are using to support your views. Now I think I’ve addressed all your points as is the norm perhaps you will do me the courtesy of going back through my posts in this thread and doing likewise.

It would matter in that the UK based evidence available pre 2016 would have been taken into consideration when DEFRA announced its decision that there was no justification for any further restrictions on the use of lead shot, let’s not lose sight of that while wading through the copious amounts of studies listed. And far more have opted not to , I think that’s fair comment

Do you have any figures that put the scientific data you intend posting into a context that reflects the comparative impact of lead shot deposition on the woodcock population compared to other factors influencing woodcock numbers. Questioning hasn’t disappeared Conor 👍

Perhaps magnetic darts ,it’s sad when personal emotions surrounding opinions result in ill feeling and that’s not my aim when constantly questioning. I hope you understand that there is no personal element to our disagreements and yes I realise that the written word can appear more abrupt and abrasive and may create the impression that these disagreements are more personal than they actually are. 👍

I’m failing to see the point of this post Conor , along with the majority of Scots I voted to remain but I don’t think that choice could be said to define me. I’m not a great believer in politicians I’m a bit too straightforward for that and I find the manipulation that goes along with politics tiring it seems to centre around avoiding answering uncomfortable questions and I prefer to be trusted with uncomfortable facts rather than have them hidden from me. Do you play darts ? If so we have that in common.

😂 I wouldn’t disagree with that quote Conor and I think time is proving me correct. The voluntary transition achieved nothingand now we are facing a legislative ban. Perhaps a concerted effort to provide studies to show the minimal impact of lead shot use inland might have been a more productive way forward. Has BASC initiated any such studies ? Has BASC sought to show the impact of lead shot compared to other detrimental effects on game bird survival to put such impact in a context ? I find your “straight into the pub swinging punches and you were more or less last man standing winner of the most comments es usual” both amusing and bizarre at the same time. It’s almost as if you are bemoaning the fact that you weren’t the “winner of the most comments” and deprived of some prize. The boring reality which is far from the drama of your pub fight scenario that you have created is that I am merely questioning information that you choose to post as have many others both here and on other forums. I repeat yet again anything I have to say I will do so on an open forum where there is transparency and accountability and it is also open to comment from other forum users. What have I got to lose or hide well ? I wouldn’t want your vivid imagination conjuring up a straight into the meeting swinging punches scenario with no witnesses to say otherwise. No I’ll stick to the safety of the forum thanks 😂 Ground hog day to a certain extent 🙂