Newbie

Just out of interest I bought a £3 green mozzie head net to go over a bush hat from my local Army and Navy, stitched a few bits of different coloured scrim to dangle from it and I can sit in the field while rabbits and squirrels come to my feet. I've been doing it for years and years. Its only recently I've had a gun with me. I wear standard british dpm and stay very still. I also rub nettles all over my kit if I'm ambushing rather than stalking. Yes....stinging nettles. They're very pungent and natural so they're good at covering the smell of humans. I discovered them when I asked an old suffolk boy about top tips for catching moles. He said never touch traps or the mole runs without wearing a pair of gloves rubbed with nettles. It worked for moles and it works with rabbit ambush. N

Kbubya You're right. Science knows ****** all. How could I have been so foolish. Its just that when you take a pigeon's eyes apart there aren't the bits inside that detect colour. Nor have cows eyes but pigs do so I assume pigs can see colour but cows cant and neither can pigeons. It is a total assumption on my part. Kind of like assuming a dog can't tie shoelaces on the grounds that it doesn't have thumbs. But what the hell do I know? I'm just a newbie. You're experienced enough to know what works and what doesn't. Surely you can't be claiming that dpm kit doesn't do anything? I do need a pair of gloves and some scrim though. Do you want to sell your kit? N

Hi all, LBB.... I bought an AA S410K in .22 and I'm as happy as a spring lamb. Its 12ft lbs and blats the bunnys daily from 20-25metres. I bought 2nd hand and the whole rig for rifle, 4-12x50 IR Walther scope, 232 cylinder and filling kit cost about £450. I reckon I'll sell the gun on for about £300 in a few months and buy a .177 to give that a try and see if the flatter trajectory is better. Next year I'll sell that one on and go for the 410k fac. 12ft lbs guns hold their value very very well (as long as they're loved) so you can experiment without losing bucks. I was told by a wide and varied, very long list of people to go for the AA410k. It beats the rest of the price range hands down for accuracy, reliability and useability. Rubble...My first air rifle (only 6 months ago) was a B2 with iron sights (cheap, chinese import) for the same money you just got a webley for. You got a good deal. ATB N

Hi all, I'm new to shooting and by comparison, no doubt I'm rubbish. But this bit is something I DO know about! *puts on Science teachers hat* (No really, I was one for 10 years!) Pigeonvision! Lots of animals see in 'monochrome'. Its not black and white as such. Calling it black and white or assuming they have black and white vision is just an easy way for us humans to explain it to ourselves. Its very hard to imagine how animals 'see'. Try to imagine how a bat makes a visual picture of the world with echo sensory parts of its brain. Its virtually impossible because we don't have the same areas in our brain. Pigeons have monochrome vision. Being prey animals with eyes on the sides they also have very sharp peripheral vision which means that they see a much wider sharp image than predators (eyes on front). Its the sharp vision bit which detects shades. The peripheral vision detects motion but not 'colour'. Try this one....... Stare at a fixed point accross the room. A poster with lettering on it is good. Without moving your eyes..... First you'll notice that your sharp vision is only about an inch round. You can read the letter you're staring at but not more than one or two either side. How wide an angle can you actually see in colour? Though you can discern colour infront of you and to the sides of your sharp vision, you can probably pick out light and dark areas but not actually colour at around 140 - 180 degrees. That bit of the human visual area is monochrome just like a pigeon's vision. Not black and white but rather shades without actual colour. Now try this..... Stare ahead again and put your arms out at 180 degrees (straight out to the sides). Can you see your fingers? If you can see them, just move your arms back until they fade from view. Now wiggle them fingers! You can detect the movement. All of this means that if you dress in a similar shade to your surroundings you are less likely to be detected by the pigeon's peripheral vision. In the field however you aren't surrounded by a single shade, you are surrounded by many shades so we try to make camo clothing mottled like our background. If you wear a single shade you have a defined outline and the pigeon is likely to identify you IF it's looking in your general direction and you're in its 'sharp vision'. If you move around, the pigeon will detect your movement in its peripheral vision (just like you wiggling your fingers at the side), look in your direction and see your defined outline because its a different shade to the surroundings. If you wear DPM you match your surroundings better and have a better chance. If however you wear a single shade and stay still, the pigeon will only see you if it HAPPENS to look you way. Staying still is therefore the key issue here. Blending in helps if they look your way. Sorry for the long post. Sorry for the lecture. N

Hi chap, If you're looking for odd tools in odd sizes these guys are local to me and are bloody brilliant! baconsdozen They also have a massive range of knives including the Frosts range. ATB Newbie

Thanks for all the input, it's made very informative reading. As I said in my original post I usually hunt rabbits and it was an opportunistic pigeon kill gone wrong which prompted me. This pigeon didn't just twitch, it went NUTS! I mean like somersaulting around like a dervish before i grabbed it and wrung it. But when I watched a repeat of the 'river cottage' series on tv there was a snippet where pigeons were being shot by a top, female, shotgun wielding pigeon assassin. They laid out their decoys, stood in their hide and blatted away at the pigeons as they flew low. Hugh FW retrieved the birds but of the few shown none were flapping or showing sign of life. It was clear that the pigeons were hit since they were falling from flight but very doubtful that they were headshot. Nor would the height of the fall kill them, therefore most of them would have needed to be wrung. Was my unfortunate 'kill' just a freak? What do the rest of you think of shotgun kills versus the accuracy of a rifle shot? Any shotgunners here? Do your shot pigeons need to be 'finished off'? Cheers all, N

I was pointed in the direction of these guys by someone who knows aLOT!!!!!! surplusandadventure Its the best prices you'll get online and they're on your doorstep so you can even collect the kit! German thermal shirts for £4!!! Pattern 95 jackets for under a tenner. John

Cheers Pin, Fortunately these didn't fly. Just the rest of the flock flew when i dashed out to wring it's neck. It felt a bit odd first time but the second time I began to wonder if it was me, inaccurate shooting to blame or whether the odd flapper was par for the course with pigeons and air rifles. How do the rest of you fare? N

Thought so, I aim for headshots which are either a solid hit or a miss. A non fatal shot has only happened a couple out of a hundred shots but its not something I get with rabbits, apart from a bit of twitching. I dispatched them within 10 secs or so but feel a bit bad. N

This may well win the 'dumb a5s newbie question of the year award' but..... With a shottie, one aims in the general direction of the bird. With a round, the forces involved are liable to cause quick death. With an air rifle pellet, to get a humane kill, am I aiming for a head / brain stem shot? I'm a rabbit killing mo-fo at the minute and Head shots at air rifle range are relatively easy. But head bobbing, tree sitting rats are a bit more randomly moving. I've had a couple of flappers which necessitated breaking cover to deliver quietus, is that par for the course? I'm not at all sqeamish but I feel it's only fair to make it quick. N

Hi Ultimate, You pick whatever name you like mate. I just read this thread through and you've had the benefit of some real experts on here. Don't be afraid to ask questions. One of the most knowledgable outdoorsmen I know is full of 'newbie' questions. He often quotes "The only stupid question is the one you were afraid to ask" As for building a hide, it's just practice at concealment. The basics of concealment are being a similar colour to what's around you and not having a defined, sharp outline and KEEP STILL. Leave your gun at home. Go to somewhere you know there'll be pigeons(corn field?). Build a hide you think will work. See how much activity you get. If you don't get much then change ONE characteristic of your hide such as adding local foliage or breaking up your outline more and see if that works. Carry on experimenting with different set ups until something works. All the time you should try to... Not give the hide a definite outline with straight or curved lines Make the hide the same basic colour as the area you're in If you ever have a bad day have a good look at the hide from the pigeon's viewpoint to see what went wrong. Yes, I am a newbie to sport shooting. No, I'm not a newbie to the outdoors. Yes, lots of people on here know more than I do. N

Hi all, I'm new to shooting and looking to buy my first gun for rabbits and pigeons. I can get an older Daystate MK3 or a reasonably new AA S410 for the same money. Both used, both with a decent scope and mod. Which do I go for and why?? John

Thanks for the reply but I would prefer to stay with air power Although I could apply for fac I'd rather not bother if I can get sufficient range / killing power from less than 12 ft/lbs. One thing I forgot to say is that I have been looking at pcp rifles for the silence. I've also had a read around other threads and am now looking at the bsa ultra too. I think a multishot rifle would be worth the extra cost too I've found the ultra multishot at a cost of £350 with silencer and the S410 for about the same cost second hand. Which one though? Or does anyone have an alternative suggestion? Any scope recommendations? Decisions Decisions! :thumbs: N

Hi all, As the name suggests I am absolutely brand new to this. I have recently shot rabbits with a degree of success (good, clean kills) on my own land (large acre and half garden surrounded by woodland) with a very low quality 12ft/lb air rifle and enjoyed it. As well as combating my ongoing rabbit / crow / pigeon problem I can obtain permission to shoot on surrounding farmland where I can literally walk 100m out of the door and take aim at any number of pests / food. I would have no problem getting a fac (I think). As a starting point I have 3 major questions... Based on your personal experience and knowing what you know, would you start out with a fac level rifle? Which one? If not then what would you buy? I've looked at the Air Arms S200, S400 and the S410 for multishot. .177 or .22? Many thanks in advance. Newbie

Hi all, Just joined so I thought it good manners to say hi. I live in north suffolk in a small village. Never shot before (apart from having a little plink with a friend's gun as a kid). I had a rabbit or 2 in my garden which is a football field size so I bought a VERY cheap chinese air rifle (SMK B2) and a cheap scope. Zero'd the sights in, shot at a bunny and took it straight through the brain stem. Caught the bug immediately. :thumbs: I'm surrounded by farm and wood land so permission isn't a problem and I have enough spare cash to set myself up for a bit of fun. I have lots of questions though so here I am. See you around. Newbie