.22 Hornet or .204?

[Cal]

Hi all ,

I am new here and am wanting a fox caliber for shooting foxes.

I have already got a CZ .22lr 452 lux and find it excellent on bunnys up to 80 yds

 

The land that i hunt over has small feilds (west country) and a powerfull caliber does not appeal to me.

 

I am only intersted in .22 Hornet or 204.

 

The .22 Hornet has allways apealed to me, but what about this new .204?

Would it do as job on foxes?

 

Apparently it was only desighened for small varmints at long range over in the states? And blows up on larger pradetores, from what i have read so far.

 

My range would be max 200yds.

 

Thanks.

[dunganick]

they are different beasts and cant really be compared, the hornet is a quiet traditional round effective up to 190, the 204 is a reborn cartridge that is not quiet and is good for 300 in the right hands

 

if your after foxes i would say out of the 2 the 204, however dont forget the 222, or 223, both are rounds with accuracy as good if not better than a 204 if handloaded, and although not such a flat flying round are not disimilar.

 

components for the 222 or 223 if handloading will at this point in the 204's life be easier to source, however the 204 is quite popular and components are becomeing easier to find

 

personally i would have a 222, but as per usual im biast, and i think many would argue that there is such little difference it barely matters

[Cal]

Thanks dunganick.

I think i might go for the .22 Hornet becuase it sounds less noisier than the .204.

The area I shoot, has a few houses around not too far away and is not that open.

I did not know much about the .204 so i thought Id ask.

I have heard the noise a .222 and .223 makes when it goes off in the past and the blast off them put me off.

The feilds Ill be shooting in are small with a lot of cover and not too open so the range that i see a lot the foxes at are around 40 to 200yds max.

Plus the Hornet is a trusted round on foxes up to that range and seems to penatrate well compared to what i have read about the 204 and them v.max bullets, exploding on impact .

[dunganick]

i think mate you have the wrong end of the stick about balistics

 

over penetration is bad, it means the bullet did not expand properly, the so called explosion on impact is good, it makes sure you get clean kills everyshot

 

the noise between the hornet and 222 is quite substantial, but unless you intend to silence you wont notice the difference, if im honest the hornet is not a great foxing round, as it dosent have the legs, im not trying to put you off, it is a very good round, but its about 3/4 the round the 222,223 or 204 will be.

 

if you get it you will love it, its a lovely little round, a little expensive to fuel due to brass prices, and reloading it is difficult to get the bullets to seat straight (run out is a hornet trade mark)

 

good luck with what ever you choose

[Cal]

Thanks Nick.

The thing is i dont believe in moderators as they are ment to cut down your speed and range, due to the barrel being shortened to accept the moderator.

I dont intend to reload ither, so its factory ammo.

My freind has a Hornet and iv seen it in action on foxes, not one got back up.

Any other Hornet ownwers out there?

[dunganick]

sorry its me again thats a load of tomato's about silencers, you might loose 100fps by loosing 2 inches off the barrel, but they are almost all shroud silencers, so not many people cut down the silencer. as i said before, the noise difference between an unsilenced hornet and 222 is negligeable its going to be load end of story, you only really notice it when you put a can on the end, which your not going to....think on it, before you set your mind on it try and get the verdict of a few other users who have both a hornet and another small callibre round, i would imagine they will agree, the hornet is 3/4 of a 223 or similar round.

 

be warned factory hornet can be expensive.

 

now someone else say something

[Hunter Gatherer]

You do not have to cut back the barrel when you add a sound moderator, but the rifle may feel a bit lengthy if you do not.

also with the .222/.223 if they were cut back and modded the ballistics would still be better than the .22 hornet.

look at Tommy Trucker's posts as he uses a cut down .223 with souund mod and seems to get on very well with it.

 

HG

 

P.S there are subsonic loads available for the .223.

[dunganick]

just before everyone goes slagging the hornet off, the hornet me and my father handload uses a 35grain vmax and does 3250fps so its no slouch, it is well into 222 and 223 teritory, however it drops like a morta and the kinetic energy it carrys is shown in the amount of expansion you get out at 190 unlike the 222 or 223 which carry their energy as they use a heavier projectile.

 

why am i talking again

[Gemini]

A .222 with a 16inch barrel will only lose @ 100 fps over a 22 inch barrel so all you need to do is use a slightly faster powder such as Reloader 7.

I cut my .222 down to 16 inches and it actually shot tighter groups due to the stiffer barrel.

A .22 Hornet will moderate very well, but a .222 will be the best fox rifle of the two.

G.M.

[Cal]

Very intersting.

Thanks for info so far .

Is it dangerouse to mess about with your firearm, ie, chopping then end off and prehaps making it weak?

Would it have to be re-proofed again to make it safe?

The price of factory Hornet ammo in my area is £30 for a box of 50, Winchester 46 grain Hallow points.

The Hornady 35 gr V.maxes are £25 for a box of 25.

So it seems reasonable to me.

I still have not heard from any Hornet users, is their anyone out their that does?

Or has the .222 and .223 taken over the whole thing?

I would love to hear from any Hornet users, thanks.

As i said i am not interested in reloading, too many children in my house which keep me very occupied . So i will have just enough time to go out once or twice a week for Charlie. :o , along with a spot of bunny hunting.

[Frank]

Hi Cal,

You said you read that the .204 blows up on foxes.

Well I have shot a good few foxes and i can tell you if bullet placement is good, they dont go far :o .

Its true, if you go for a shoulder shot, then you might have problems as the caliber is so high in velocity, with so much energy in the small bullet that blow ups are possible with the v.maxes .

Aim just behind the front shoulder and you shpuld be fine .

What is needed in the 204 is more range of bullets that have a bit more controlled expansion.

Apparently Barnes is going to take the plunge and introduce a good bullet for this purpose.

I must say, this caliber has been out over a year now and ammo for it is getting harder to get . Dont know if thats got something to do with me living over here in Ireland, but the only ammo available to me is Hornady V.max in 40 grain and 32 grain.

What is needed is a good soft point I think.

I had a go of a .22-250 over the weekend and funnily enough, found the recoil and blast from it much the same as the .204 , its advertied as having much less recoil and muzzel blast then the .22-250, but from the experience I had over the week end, this is not true.

I would love to try a .222 to compare the difference .

Edited July 18, 2005 by Frank

[Gemini]

The hornet is obviously going to be the best bet if you are buying your ammo’ at @ £30 for 50. .222 ammo’ will set you back @ £18 for 20.

Shame though, because the .222 would be a better bet in the long run….or even a .223 where you could buy military surplus ammo for @ £20 per 100 to play with (but don’t use it on foxes, it’s FMJ)

G.M.

[dunganick]

im still not sure what the issue is with expansion, as long as you have an exit wound that is large you know that the projectile is not over expanding and just causing a flesh wound, a large hole might ruin the pelt but its alot easier to kill a fox cleanly with the v max or other similar b/t. but from experiance as i do use a hornet, the expansion is not that great due to the lack of knietic energy it holds at longer ranges, however if you want to be able to hit something at 190 yards you need to have a flat flying bullet to hit it, hold over for our hornet when zero'd one inch high @ 100 is 4 inches at 200, this is still a useable ammount of holdover, hold over with a 40grain or 45 that most people run in hornets is about 7inches, which is alot of holdover to gauge accuratly.

 

btw i seem to recall the 204 has been out for a few years and was based in the 222mag? so infact is not new, but im not certain about that one, dont hold me too it

 

i believe it has only just come to light becuase another company is trying to sell another small callibre varmint round and steal the market.

[Frank]

The 20 caliber has apparently been out for a few years, but the Ruger .204 was only invented in March '04 in the States.

True it is based on the .222 Magnum cartrige being necked down to accept a .20 caliber bullet.

Im seriously starting to have my doubts about this caliber staying around for long.

I think the .22-250 walks all over it, for energy and ammo selection, plus it has the same recoil and muzzel blast. .

Over here in Ireland the .22-250 is a deer legal caliber too .

Mmmmmm, im starting to think. .

[dunganick]

 

always have liked the 22-250, its a noisy beast, but recoil is never going to be an issue with a 50 grain bullet.

 

its life frank, the 204 seems to do the job fine on foxes, i dont see any problem with it, i seem to recal you were going to get a 6.5, well when you get that you wont use the 204 anymore anyway its a very good round, you certainly wont think you made a mistake with it

[Frank]

I agree Nick, the 6.5 is the best

The only thing is, my local police are giving me a lot of greaf in getting it licenced .

I suggested would a .22-250 be ok and they dont seem to have a problem with it.

The .22-250 will combine as a fox x deer rifle.

We shall see, Ill wait and see what happens.

Anyone want to by a .204? .

Edited July 18, 2005 by Frank

[Big Dog]

Hi Cal take a look at a post site on this room page 2

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...?showtopic=9652

 

I had similar questions between .222 & .22 Hornet. Personally if you want 200yrs then if you have limited you search to the 2 calibiers go for the 204. More efficent, straighter trajectory. The Hornet is good too but may be pusing it at the range??

 

The .222 is my choice

 

Hope you are pleased with which ever you get.

[Big Dog]

Cal I think you have your mind made up from what I read of your posts. That OK. Take a look at the following pages they may help you with comparisons. Ps If you want to be convinced about a hornet go unto a USA forum, they love the Hornet over there. Also type in .22 Hornet to the search engine of you Internet brouser and you will get a good side on Hornets and other compatable guns. Sorry I don't have the site on this PC.

 

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/riflescalibreland

 

http://www.reloadbench.com/cart.html This one will give you a range of stuff

 

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-...ballistics.html

 

If this don't sort you out take up fishing

 

 

 

PS.

Frank - sorry to hear you are loosing faith in the 204. Hope the 22-250 put you on top form again. Have you any comment to make on my new post on Guns & Cart's?? Heavy Barrel?? Take a look for me mate :o

[Cal]

Thanks Big Dog .

Great info, i did a lot of searching and came up with a good few facts.

It seems the .204 is deadly out to 400yds and sometimes more .

The only thing it mainly seems to get used on is Prerie dogs and ground hogs most of the time.

Some coyotes are taken with it in the states, but they advise to go for a shot behind the shoulder, otherwise the tiny v.max bullet causes a crater wound (or as its known in the states a splash) and tracking the poor unfortunate creture for a while to put in the humane kill seems to be the norm .

On the other hand, the info i got about the Hornet from my search was very possitive, up to 150 to 180yds, on coyotes in the states.

Apperently the .224 centerfire bullet with more copper on it, penetrates the vitals and then explodes, which they say gives a bang flop which seems a far better combination.

So with all this info, im going for the Hornet. It seems fairly qiuet too compared to say .222, .223, ect.

Thanks everyone for all the input, you have all been a great help .

Cal.

[Big Dog]

Glad I was of help Cal. Keep us posted about the Hornet you get, good shoot and keep a good back drop behind your shots as it will still carry.

[Cal]

Thanks Big dog .

Ill keep you all posted.

Cheers.