darren m Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 can you give too much retrieving my ESS is mad keen with a tennis ball or dummy, in fact some times thats all she wants to do . what do you think cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyspringer Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 yes definitely can do to much, the dog could potentially get bored, or become obsessive about it, i only know the problem to well, i have spoilt my bitch from giving to much retreiving, novice into the training world and spoilt her big time, very hard to get the retrive back. keep the dog eager for retrieving but don't go mad with it, wish my dog still enjoyed it, good for a bonding time. Regards RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Yep, if the dog is a good, keen retriever: don't push it over the top with too many pointless retrieves. Concentrate on "quality" retrieves, rather than quantity. Channel the dogs' eagerness for the retrieve to motivate it to complete other training/practice such as quartering, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 ok cheers - with all good intention i do try , but because shes so insistant i always end up giving her loads of retrieves. re-quality , well i need to get her to retrieve to hand , but she keeps bringing it back and just dropping it on the floor in front of me waiting to through it again so if anyones got any good ideas for retrieving to hand , please let me know thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 IMHO. Try to get rid of the tennis ball and dummy, they have obviously become her toys. I presume that; when she has dropped the retrieve in front of you, that you then rewarded her by picking it up and giving her another retrieve. If this is the case, then it should stop. I suggest that you do not throw any more retrieves ever. After a couple of weeks break with no retrieves, carefully place the odd retrieve without her knowledge,(blind). Make her hunt it up wind. When she retrieves it, put it away in your bag. Praise and move away. Gradually encourage her to come close in and retrieve to hand by backing off and praising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 IMHO. Try to get rid of the tennis ball and dummy, they have obviously become her toys. I presume that; when she has dropped the retrieve in front of you, that you then rewarded her by picking it up and giving her another retrieve. If this is the case, then it should stop. I suggest that you do not throw any more retrieves ever. After a couple of weeks break with no retrieves, carefully place the odd retrieve without her knowledge,(blind). Make her hunt it up wind. When she retrieves it, put it away in your bag. Praise and move away. Gradually encourage her to come close in and retrieve to hand by backing off and praising. malc - your spot on , thats what seems to be happening . i,m thinking that we have given her too many toys , even in the house she as various toys she loves to carry about , but i thought carrying stuff was a good thing :( kids also give her retrievs in the garden. i,am trying to teach her to get back and go left and right , she loves it like a game , probably do 20+ retrieves per session 5 each side a few back and a few long seen , non of them however come back to my hand ( always on the floor in front only ) and shes still eager for more . if you think stopping this will help , i,ll give it a go . explain your reasoning for it though please mate . thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Sorry for slow reply. To explain my reason.... Throwing dummies/balls/etc is simply a method to train the gundog to retrieve. Your dog now knows how to retrieve now and should move away from this "unrealistic" training to more relevant exercises. If it was just a pet, not a gundog, then this would not matter and would be a really good way of exercising the dog. But your dog is apparently dropping the dummy in front of you in the hope you will throw it again. This is no good. I suspect this is because it has learned that a dropped dummy, means another fun retrieve. Of course in the shooting field this is unacceptable. The dog cannot be allowed to drop game in front of you and should never be encouraged to do so. You would never throw a pigeon or a pheasant for the dog to retrieve, especially if the dog had just brought it back to you, so why do it with a dummy this late in training? The retrieves should be stopped and the dog exercised in other ways for a couple of weeks. Then, when you start retrieves again, never throw them or use a launcher. Always place them blind or get someone else to throw/launch them, some distance away from you and the dog. Get the dog to hunt it up and retrieve it to you. Then accept the retrieve and put it away in your pocket/bag. Send the dog for a second blind retrieve straight after and it should get the idea that retrieving is about bringing balls/dummies/birds back to you, for you to keep and not bringing them back for you to throw again & again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 My Springer is bout 5 months old and is an excellent retriever already but when I'm taking her on her daily walk she keeps lifting plastic bottles and sticks. I'm just scared of discouraging her from lifting so I will always ask her to bring it to hand. When I give her a cold carcass retrieve she is perfect so I'm happy enough, if only I could get her hunting more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 if only I could get her hunting more. I have a 6 month old Lab bitch in training now. She hunts like a spaniel. I trained her to retrieve the thrown visible dummy first, then thrown into 6 inch tall grass where not visible and at the same time introducing the command "lost". Then onto totally blind retrieves placed (without her seeing) up wind, in 6 inch tall grass. I would work her down wind of the retrieve and repeat the the command "lost". I'm just at the stage of training her to hunt without the wind, but now, on the command "lost" her nose goes down and tail goes up and she hunts great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Sorry for slow reply. To explain my reason.... Throwing dummies/balls/etc is simply a method to train the gundog to retrieve. Your dog now knows how to retrieve now and should move away from this "unrealistic" training to more relevant exercises. If it was just a pet, not a gundog, then this would not matter and would be a really good way of exercising the dog. But your dog is apparently dropping the dummy in front of you in the hope you will throw it again. This is no good. I suspect this is because it has learned that a dropped dummy, means another fun retrieve. Of course in the shooting field this is unacceptable. The dog cannot be allowed to drop game in front of you and should never be encouraged to do so. You would never throw a pigeon or a pheasant for the dog to retrieve, especially if the dog had just brought it back to you, so why do it with a dummy this late in training? The retrieves should be stopped and the dog exercised in other ways for a couple of weeks. Then, when you start retrieves again, never throw them or use a launcher. Always place them blind or get someone else to throw/launch them, some distance away from you and the dog. Get the dog to hunt it up and retrieve it to you. Then accept the retrieve and put it away in your pocket/bag. Send the dog for a second blind retrieve straight after and it should get the idea that retrieving is about bringing balls/dummies/birds back to you, for you to keep and not bringing them back for you to throw again & again. malc thanks - thats a great explanation . i have cut right down on retrieves now . i,m going to stop using the tennis ball as this seems to excite her slightly more . it seems like the more excited she is the worse the retrieve , if she can stay calm she seems to bring it in better , i bought a dokken dummy the type where you inject the scent so will try hiding that about , also hiding cold game if i can get it should help . your right in the real world , you just would,nt throw out a dead bird again and again , makes perfect sense thanks mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have a 6 month old Lab bitch in training now. She hunts like a spaniel. I trained her to retrieve the thrown visible dummy first, then thrown into 6 inch tall grass where not visible and at the same time introducing the command "lost". Then onto totally blind retrieves placed (without her seeing) up wind, in 6 inch tall grass. I would work her down wind of the retrieve and repeat the the command "lost". I'm just at the stage of training her to hunt without the wind, but now, on the command "lost" her nose goes down and tail goes up and she hunts great. As I've already said on this site she just seems a bit timid although she is showing some signs that she may start hunting soon. Been taking her out with the mother a lot to see if she will follow her lead so to speak. Correct me if I'm doing anything worng but this is the first dog I have ever trained from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Pictures of Dawn nearly 6 months old. This is the dog I have been referring to and tormenting you guys for advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Darren - keen retrieving is a GREAT tool for reward based training, and there is a difference between a retrieve and a find, but you want both to hand. I disagree with Malc's statement that you should not throw retrieves now, fine for a lab but nonsense for a spaniel, a thrown dummy over a hunting dog is one of the best ways to teach the drop to flush. And throwing dummies/balls and picking them yourself discourages running in. However, I do agree with Malc that throwing endless seen retrieves for a dog at heel is pointless and rewarding poor delivery with another retrieve is encouraging the spitting habit you are seeing. Do NOT accept any retrieve from your dog unless you are happy with the delivery, if it spits the dummy or runs around you should move away and keep the retrieve alive until the dog knows you will only accept a retrieve when the dog behaves in a certain way. Definitely too much retrieving is not good for a spaniel's hunting, it will start to look at you for the thrown retrieve. A problem if you are competing, but an absolute godsend if you are on a shoot day with lots of game and your dog in danger of "doing one"; stick your hand in your game bag and the dog looks to see what's coming out... not a bad thing. All part of the training tools Edited November 1, 2009 by wgd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polski Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Stop the kids from giving the dog any retrieves, any progress you make in the training field will be undone at home. Personally, I would stop all retrieving work for the time being and concentrate on other aspects of training, then slowly reintroduce retrieving work at a later date. Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurrasicway Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Darren - keen retrieving is a GREAT tool for reward based training, and there is a difference between a retrieve and a find, but you want both to hand. I disagree with Malc's statement that you should not throw retrieves now, fine for a lab but nonsense for a spaniel, a thrown dummy over a hunting dog is one of the best ways to teach the drop to flush. And throwing dummies/balls and picking them yourself discourages running in. However, I do agree with Malc that throwing endless seen retrieves for a dog at heel is pointless and rewarding poor delivery with another retrieve is encouraging the spitting habit you are seeing. Do NOT accept any retrieve from your dog unless you are happy with the delivery, if it spits the dummy or runs around you should move away and keep the retrieve alive until the dog knows you will only accept a retrieve when the dog behaves in a certain way. Definitely too much retrieving is not good for a spaniel's hunting, it will start to look at you for the thrown retrieve. A problem if you are competing, but an absolute godsend if you are on a shoot day with lots of game and your dog in danger of "doing one"; stick your hand in your game bag and the dog looks to see what's coming out... not a bad thing. All part of the training tools Just to add to this from wgd - I have just cured the problem of dropping a dummy at my feet with my 8 month old lab. Do not accept the retrieve until he places in your hands. When he drops it walk backwards and keep walking until he puts it in your hand. It took archie about a week, now retrieves to hand every time. Next step is to only accept when he is sitting but I have not started this yet as I want to get the dummy to hand firmly embedded before I go on. Good luck..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Some contradictory and confusing advice. I'll leave it at that I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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