Help with budgetting for new (old) rough shoot

[flyingfisherman]

Ive had the nod from the landowners to sort out a shoot which has been dormant for several years.. Which is great, and although im fairly happy with the day to day running of a pheasant shoot driven or rough, im not sure on how to budget.

 

At the moment, the land is there (rent free), the pens (2 decent sized ones in the main two woods) are there although they need some work and partridges have never been put down so that will be to sort out.. I have no real idea how to sort out a costing and therefore dont know how much the guns would pay. Obviously the landowners wont be paying (hope to get them to suppy the wheat though).

 

In the syndicate im in now, probably about the same acreage we pay £300 PA and have 10 days shooting a year of pheasants and partridge (were averaging about 40 head so far) so i am using this as my yardstick.

 

Im hoping to have max 8 days shooting and to be honest, looking more at an average of 20 head.. so to keep figures simple, shoot 200 head over the season. Out of this 200, i would expect 75% to be pheasants and partridge. Working on shooting 40% of what you put down, we would need to put down around 400 pheasants/partridges. How much should i expect to pay for poults and pellets. As i say, i dont think wheat will be a problem..

 

Any more useful tips much appreciated!! Also any books worth reading, i have your shoot by ian McCall and running your own shoot..

 

My rough plan at the moment is to liase with the farmers and either get them to leave some sugarbeet in for cover or if im lucky enough, put a few cover crops in. Im planning on getting some pen sections for the partridge pens and sticking a few of them in strategic places.. Im unsure of how much to budget for say 6 partridge pens (24 pen sections) plus drinkers and feeders etc..

 

Also, how to budget for the feed, How much do you pay for grower pellets? I know wheat is subject to prices but the farmer should suppy this as part of his payment for a gun in the syndicate..

 

Any more help would be great.

 

Cheers

[nipper]

Its not going to be easy to get figures for a new piece of ground for the first year !

 

Before you commit yourself, you could maybe get all interested parties together and see just what they are prepared to spend??.

If you include vehicle repairs ,diesel ,tax and insurance . As well as pen repairs ,game crops , feeders , drinkers , medication (wormers) , bales , wheat , barley (ducks???) etc etc etc the list is fairly long . The farmer can supply wheat easy enough, but he WILL consider that in a monetery value !As with game and cover crops !!!They will all cost somebody something !

 

Then who is going to do all the work ? Unless its shared out or on a rota system you will find out that you will have to do the bloody lot !!! And if it goes wrong at times ! you know who's neck will be in the noose don't you !!!lolol

 

The bottom line is ,

MAKE SURE THAT THEY ALL KNOW IF THERE IS A SHORTFALL IN THE CASH, THEY ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING EXTRA TO COVER IT !!!!

Otherwise you will be severely out of pocket !

 

The very best of luck to you ,wish you every success

[flyingfisherman]

Thanks for the reply matey..

 

I can see its a minefield.. Im fairly happy with the actual running of the shoot, helped my old man for enough years.. Where i get bogged down is the costing etc.. Im going to have a word with the landowners and see how it used to be run and on what basis.. What i could do with doing is getting some figures roughly of how much it would cost to put down and look after 400-500 birds from a hypothetical point if the pens were up to scratch and the vehicle was paid for etc..

 

Im planning on doing a lot of the work myself and obviously have a few work parties as required.

 

If you have any rough rules of thumb to work out the 'running' costs, that would be great..

[nipper]

I will see if I can dig out the annual figures for our shoot here . Its a bit larger than you are talking about ,but you will get a good idea of whats all involved by applying it to your own .

I will PM you later this evening OK .

[goldypurple]

my shoot here in norfolk costs 7,500 to run a year and that includes rent which is 3000, birds are about 1300 then feed which is about another 1000-1200 plus any extras

 

That doesnt include fuel for feeding everyday etc

[Browning]

Starter for 10 here for you FF, this is what I paid for this seasons birds:-

 

Pheasant Poults £3.35 ea

Partridge Poults £3.50 ea

Ducklings £2.95 ea

 

Grower Pellets £340 / tonne

Medicated Pellets £407 / tonne

 

Then you have costs for maintenance (Pens, feeders, drinkers etc etc), personal running costs (Diesel etc etc) which will

be specific to your shoot.

 

Remember to make sure your syndicate members know about ongoing costs like providing lunch on shoot days and

payment for beaters/pickers up etc.

[gyp]

I thought as a rule of thumb, £25 per shot bird. ie put 1000 birds down shoot 40% therefore 400 birds at £25 equals £10K cost.

 

If you do 5 days shooting with 8 guns £10k divided by 5 divided by 8 equals £250 each gun for 80 bird days.

 

I might be wrong?

[al4x]

with that number of birds down i'd be looking at far less days out otherwise you'll find you shoot most on the first few days and then next to nothing. 20 birds split between 8 guns is nothing really so really you need to decide if you're going to have a proper syndicate or just a few walked up days with a few mates. If this is the case then costs will be minimal, 400 birds don't need a lot of food and you may be able to get them well grown before you put them out and go from there, costs on this basis would probably be under 3K a year so £375 each split between 8 guns with no beaters to pay for.

If you want beaters etc then you need to put down more birds and then the costs go up as do costs for planting cover crops etc Is your farmer interested in shooting as a good deal can often be done if he wants either a gun through the season or a day for his friends

[flyingfisherman]

Thanks for the info. On the syndicate im in at the moment, we put down around 500 pheasants and have 10 days shooting a year, averaging 35-40, maybe even 45 bird days at the moment.. which i think is good going considering we only have two more days to shoot.. We pay £300 per year per gun (8-10 guns) and have 3-4 feed days throughout the season with the odd work day in the summer.

 

So, working on the same amount of birds (ok, maybe 300 pheasants and 100 partridge) and shooting 8 days over the same sort of size ground, i think that 20 birds is a little conservative..

 

How much food would you budget on per 100 birds? Also, refresh me, is the rule of thumb for birds in a pen, something like one pheasant for every yard of perimeter? If we were to put 100 to 150 partridges down then we would have capacity for 500 pheasants.. all dependent on costs etc..

 

Im pretty sure that the land rent is free, will double check as theres several farmers who used to contribute land.. I am compiling some costs for running my vehicle etc (I live around 5 miles from the shoot). With a cost hopefully from the help from you guys for birds and the feed, i am going to walk the land this weekend and see what state of disrepair the pens are in.

 

Once the main farmer is back from holiday, i think i will pick his brains about sowing some gamecovers.. and the price of!

 

 

Thanks again guys..

 

Ok my thoughts...

 

150 Partridge at £3.50 each = £525

500 Pheasants at £3.35 each = £1675

 

(working on 500 pheasants eat 4 tonnes of food from release to March.. Courtesy of Ian McCall!)

 

3.5 tonnes of wheat = Not sure of the price of wheat at the mo (c.£30?)

1.5 tonnes of pellets = £510

 

Total approximately £3000...

 

 

 

FFM

Edited January 12, 2010 by flyingfisherman

[markm]

To buy, feed and rear look at around £6.00 per bird. This figure is for bird & food. It allows for the cost of birds that survive to Dec/Jan. All other expenses need to be put on top, if its a private knock around with friends will you pay for your own fuel and have nothing for time?? If its as a business you need to add all in.

 

 

If you shoot 50% of what you release (you have done well), so the cost per bird bagged is now £12.00 per head. Keep in mind an awful lot of shoots will get lower. On one shoot I am in we release 400 duck, the returns fluctuate but this year we have shot 30, the rest walked even after being well fed.

 

Pellets - 100 birds - 30 bags

Wheat - 100 birds - 60 bags

 

Pellets - £8 a bag

Wheat - £2.25 a bag (£90 tonne)

 

 

 

If on your other shoot you release 500 birds and shoot 400 through the season either you are surrounded by shoots who release a lot of birds or you have very good ground with a good wild head of game.

[flyingfisherman]

Cheers MarkM, some really good info there..

 

Im not going to charge for my time although i expect to pay nothing or considerably less considering i will be running the shoot..

 

On the shoot im in now, we put down ducks too and had exactly the same problem.. they disappeared.. although theyre yorkshire ducks, my best guess is that they have flown back to where we bought them from (literally 5 miles as the 'duck' flies!!').. On the same note, although were averaging 40 head, on an average day, were probably shooting 10 various head, so were more along the lines of shooting 300 pheasants, we do have another similar sized shoot which is next door, thats gotta help.. I would be happy with shooting 40% of the birds released! Maybe were just having a good year!!

[markm]

You will need electric fence units for the pens. Keep an eye out over the summer for promotions at your local farm supply store as they often have promo days where you can pick units up half price. You will get a big 12 volt unit for the price of small scale c cell units - approx £100.

 

 

You may be out of pocket the first year but after the first setting up you will reclaim money back over a few years (maybe). Also YOU will be equiped to set up another shoot in the future if needed.

 

If you are using spring feeders invest in badger spikes 50p each (see patrick plinker) as they stop deer and badgers pulling at the springs eating the wheat you pay for. You will save a lot of money.

[flyingfisherman]

Cheers George, im well known by the local game farm as old man was a keeper on the shoot there, defo a good idea!! I was planning on not having paid beaters to be honest, the way its run in the syndicate im in now is that theres always a few walking guns (generally get as much if not more shooting) and if there are any beaters, we put some money behind the bar for a few drinks and supper at the pub, the cost is negligable that way, the beaters would obv be first in line for any vermin control too..

 

It will be hopper feeding once the birds are released, the spikes sound like a good idea, had lots of trouble in the past with stretched springs! Im looking forward to getting stuck in.. And slightly anxious with the prospect of setting it up..

 

Another thing that ive been reading about was tagging birds, especially in early years of a shoot as this way, you can get an accurate reading of how many of your birds you shoot.. Sounds like a good idea to me although im not a lover of handing the birds a lot when your in the process of relelasing them, too much stress and all.. Be interesting to hear your thoughts..

[markm]

I would not tag or you will CRY.

Also be prepared for sleepless nights with worry, you will think every fox, badger, mink and poacher in the whole county will be round for a party, then when they get out you worry more.

But on the first shoot day you may smile.

[flyingfisherman]

Ha yeah, i remember the stress that used to show on my old mans face.. on the first duck drives in September all the way through to keepers day (where i have been known to shoot his white pheasant, he certainly wasnt happy.. I maintain it was a sky high sparrow out of the sun!!)

 

When i walk the ground (hopefull in the next week, weather depending) i hope to get a good idea which fox sets are in use and other potential problem areas.. Luckily ive shot foxes and vermin over the land for several years so have a bit of an idea what im facing!