Off Season

[ollie]

Hi Guys,

 

As a lot of you will know I have a young Springer (approaching 9 months old), she has showed great promise in the field this season flushing all sort of game and getting some great retrieves. Now the question is with the season over what activities should I do with the pup to keep her sharp for next season and also to improve her? One of the jobs I have to get done is to teach her how to retrieve from the water so she is ready for the flight pond.

 

Cheers,

 

Ollie

[Mec 9000]

At 9 months it is nearing the time for advanced training so you are in an ideal situation to move forward. Don't know where you are up to with the basic stuff so it would be worthwhile listing all the likely things that the dog will come up against on a shoot day and plan your regime to suit.

Steadiness is a must, recall is a must. stopping a dog in it's tracks when hunting is for me the most important as there is so much danger from nearby roads. When you are happy that these areas are bombproof then you could think about dropping to shot and or dropping to flush. Another area to consider is redirection from a known dead bird onto a runner.

All these are not difficult to achieve with a good dog and both you and the dog will enjoy the progression, they can all be simulated in the field easily.

A rabbit pen is handy if you have access.

Gerry

[garyb]

At 9 months it is nearing the time for advanced training so you are in an ideal situation to move forward. Don't know where you are up to with the basic stuff so it would be worthwhile listing all the likely things that the dog will come up against on a shoot day and plan your regime to suit.

Steadiness is a must, recall is a must. stopping a dog in it's tracks when hunting is for me the most important as there is so much danger from nearby roads. When you are happy that these areas are bombproof then you could think about dropping to shot and or dropping to flush. Another area to consider is redirection from a known dead bird onto a runner.

All these are not difficult to achieve with a good dog and both you and the dog will enjoy the progression, they can all be simulated in the field easily.

A rabbit pen is handy if you have access.

Gerry

 

Sound advice that

[Delbert]

Sound advice that

Yep I'd go with that!

[ollie]

At 9 months it is nearing the time for advanced training so you are in an ideal situation to move forward. Don't know where you are up to with the basic stuff so it would be worthwhile listing all the likely things that the dog will come up against on a shoot day and plan your regime to suit.

Steadiness is a must, recall is a must. stopping a dog in it's tracks when hunting is for me the most important as there is so much danger from nearby roads. When you are happy that these areas are bombproof then you could think about dropping to shot and or dropping to flush. Another area to consider is redirection from a known dead bird onto a runner.

All these are not difficult to achieve with a good dog and both you and the dog will enjoy the progression, they can all be simulated in the field easily.

A rabbit pen is handy if you have access.

Gerry

 

Thanks for the advice. To be honest the bitch is only used for rough shooting so I think some of the training you have suggested would be unnecessary. She has been out in the field for the past 4 months and has shown a willingness to hunt and she has flushed a lot of game, she is also a great retriever. However from time to time when she has flushed a bird she will run after it, how do you suggest I stop her from doing this? Unfortunately I don't have a access to a rabbit pen, but I do know an area where she could flush some rabbits if it helps.

[Mec 9000]

Ollie.

A few things to think about. She is only a rough shooting dog as you say, OK so what is a gundog or better still what dog is entitled to be called a gundog. Is it a dog that flushes an odd bird or rabbit for the gun then is laid up for a while till the notion comes on again. Is it the well meaning owner who has his dog run wild on a shoot but can luckily flush the odd thing, or is it a dog trained for the purpose of regular work, knows its stuff and dog and handler make up a trustworthy team. I would always argue the latter.

If you have the makings of a good dog then don't sell yourself or the dog short, get out there and train the dog to work in the way you want it to because from what you have said the dog wants to learn and to please you and at the end of the day you may be the envy of your shooting pals. I only work Labs now and pick up but I always get a sense of pride when I'm congratulated on my dogs so go for it.

Once you are confident that she will stop to a whistle then introduce her to the temptation that the flush will bring, If the dog fails to stop then she is not properly conditioned as it should be a conditioned reflex action, but then sometimes excitement gets the better and how do you shoot a rabbit without shooting the dog hot on it's tail. How do you feel when it flushes a bird, you miss and the dog follows it into the next county. Create the flush and control the dog yourself. Since you don't have access to a rabbit pen I will let you work that one out for yourself and give my way of dealing with flushing birds.

I borrow half a dozen homing pigeons from a friend then get out into the training field and dig six holes 50-60yds apart into each I place a pigeon and cover with a piece of plywood with 20-30 yds of string attached and laid out in a line to a marker that I can find easily. Go get the dog who has not seen all this going on and work the dog onto the pigeon all the while controlled on a long check cord as dog nears pigeon to flush then I pull string and let pigeon flush, the dog is checked up whith whistle and cord praised and move to next one and so on. You can work close to or farther from flush as dog improves.

Pigeons all fly home to be used another day. within a couple of weeks you should be able to do this without cord then without whistle.

Problem nowadays is getting the homers but the idea of instantly correcting the dog at the precice moment means the dog cannot get into the habit of chasing, it will stop or drop whichever you teach it.

Gerry

[ollie]

Ollie.

A few things to think about. She is only a rough shooting dog as you say, OK so what is a gundog or better still what dog is entitled to be called a gundog. Is it a dog that flushes an odd bird or rabbit for the gun then is laid up for a while till the notion comes on again. Is it the well meaning owner who has his dog run wild on a shoot but can luckily flush the odd thing, or is it a dog trained for the purpose of regular work, knows its stuff and dog and handler make up a trustworthy team. I would always argue the latter.

If you have the makings of a good dog then don't sell yourself or the dog short, get out there and train the dog to work in the way you want it to because from what you have said the dog wants to learn and to please you and at the end of the day you may be the envy of your shooting pals. I only work Labs now and pick up but I always get a sense of pride when I'm congratulated on my dogs so go for it.

Once you are confident that she will stop to a whistle then introduce her to the temptation that the flush will bring, If the dog fails to stop then she is not properly conditioned as it should be a conditioned reflex action, but then sometimes excitement gets the better and how do you shoot a rabbit without shooting the dog hot on it's tail. How do you feel when it flushes a bird, you miss and the dog follows it into the next county. Create the flush and control the dog yourself. Since you don't have access to a rabbit pen I will let you work that one out for yourself and give my way of dealing with flushing birds.

I borrow half a dozen homing pigeons from a friend then get out into the training field and dig six holes 50-60yds apart into each I place a pigeon and cover with a piece of plywood with 20-30 yds of string attached and laid out in a line to a marker that I can find easily. Go get the dog who has not seen all this going on and work the dog onto the pigeon all the while controlled on a long check cord as dog nears pigeon to flush then I pull string and let pigeon flush, the dog is checked up whith whistle and cord praised and move to next one and so on. You can work close to or farther from flush as dog improves.

Pigeons all fly home to be used another day. within a couple of weeks you should be able to do this without cord then without whistle.

Problem nowadays is getting the homers but the idea of instantly correcting the dog at the precice moment means the dog cannot get into the habit of chasing, it will stop or drop whichever you teach it.

Gerry

 

First of all thanks for the excellent advice. Just to give you a bit of background, the dog is relatively steady, but its just when she rises a bird that she takes off for bout 20 yards after it. Its not that I don't want to get the best outa my dog, its just this is the first dog I have trained and I'm still quite amateurish at it . The advice you have given me is perfect, my best mate who I always go shooting with and who has a sister of my bitch will be following your advice as his dad has about 100 racing pigeons. I think when the weather starts getting better and the evenings get longer we will try out your advice. Just a couple of questions, how close do you let the dog get before letting the pigeon go? Do you create a scent trail by keeping the pigeon close to the ground before you put it in the hole?

 

Cheers

 

Ollie

[Mec 9000]

Good question Ollie. What I do is always place place pigeon in hole from upwind side, cover and walk the string in a semi circle to downwind marker as much as possible, this means the dog working in from straight downwind and not following my footscent but will wind the bird, I don't lay a trail for unshot birds but do lay a trail for shot and running birds to teach the dog to follow from fall area. A shot bird will have blood and powder scent in addition that the dog will learn to distinguish. How close to work before release, close enough that the dog thinks it is doing the flushing, the telling factor is how far in front of you will it sit to flush when not on check, experiment and think it through. Remember that in the field a dog may have to actually nudge a sitting pheasant to get it in the air.

As I said I only work Labs now for retrieving so they are never sent out unless there is a bird to be picked, they do not hunt up as to send them out to seek what may not be there is contrary to me sending them out to find a shot bird thus instilling all the time in the dog that there is something to find and bring back. Gives no mixed messages.

A little bit more difficult with a hunting dog as it's instincts to hunt is strong, Hunt, flush mark and retieve is easy but then to ask it to retrieve a blind at reasonable distance takes more time and patience but once the penny drops in the dog and with experience they can do it all.

I always say, If you work your training so that the dog can't get it wrong you are well on the way. Take the dog that flushes and chases, flush may be good and in range of shot but dog makes mistake by running off into the distance possibly flushing out of range birds as it goes, if this goes on unchecked you will have many a day ruined. So, if we again go back to the pigeon in the hole you get hunt flush drop and you are in control so no mistakes.

Happy training. Oh and bye the way if all goes well then a run in go back and do it all again. The dog must learn what it must do and do it.

Gerry

[ollie]

Good question Ollie. What I do is always place place pigeon in hole from upwind side, cover and walk the string in a semi circle to downwind marker as much as possible, this means the dog working in from straight downwind and not following my footscent but will wind the bird, I don't lay a trail for unshot birds but do lay a trail for shot and running birds to teach the dog to follow from fall area. A shot bird will have blood and powder scent in addition that the dog will learn to distinguish. How close to work before release, close enough that the dog thinks it is doing the flushing, the telling factor is how far in front of you will it sit to flush when not on check, experiment and think it through. Remember that in the field a dog may have to actually nudge a sitting pheasant to get it in the air.

As I said I only work Labs now for retrieving so they are never sent out unless there is a bird to be picked, they do not hunt up as to send them out to seek what may not be there is contrary to me sending them out to find a shot bird thus instilling all the time in the dog that there is something to find and bring back. Gives no mixed messages.

A little bit more difficult with a hunting dog as it's instincts to hunt is strong, Hunt, flush mark and retieve is easy but then to ask it to retrieve a blind at reasonable distance takes more time and patience but once the penny drops in the dog and with experience they can do it all.

I always say, If you work your training so that the dog can't get it wrong you are well on the way. Take the dog that flushes and chases, flush may be good and in range of shot but dog makes mistake by running off into the distance possibly flushing out of range birds as it goes, if this goes on unchecked you will have many a day ruined. So, if we again go back to the pigeon in the hole you get hunt flush drop and you are in control so no mistakes.

Happy training. Oh and bye the way if all goes well then a run in go back and do it all again. The dog must learn what it must do and do it.

Gerry

 

Many thanks for the excellent advice . As I say I think I will wait until the evenings get longer and then I will try the technique with my mate and his dads pigeons. plus it will keep the dog sharp in the off season. I also need to get the dog retrieving from water, but the wee bitch is quite a good retriever so I can't see this being a problem.