Old Gun

[davhope]

I have an old side by side underlever hammergun with damascus barrels that has been very badly abused by my father and grandfather,

I have wondered if anybody is a expert on proof marks and how much information i can get from them.

My grandfather has long since passed on and my dad doesnt seem to be interested in any way at all.

I belived that it is a Hardy of Alnwick shotgun dating from the 1920s but having looked at it this morning am starting to think it could be older.

The marks are as follows,

the initials BP under a crown,

a number 12 above a C in a diamond,

a BV under a crown,

the number 13 on one barrel and a 13/1 on the other barrel

It also has the serial no H4735 but I dont know if this is relavent,

HOPING SOMEONE CAN HELP

Regards David

Edited January 29, 2006 by davhope

[Cranfield]

Go to this site http://www.gunproof.com/Proofing/body_proofing.html and scroll down the list and you will see most of your proof marks there.

 

Hopefully someone can help out with the marks that are missing.

 

The only Hardy of Alnwick I can find is the fly fishing equipment manufacturer and retailer.

Whether they had any guns made and "labelled" for them, I don't know.

If they did, it could be a foreign make, which would also explain the damascus barrels.

[Gemini]

The BP stands for Black powder Proof which means that unless it has a BNP on it somewhere, it hasn’t been nitro proofed. The BV is the viewing mark.

The 13 over 1 shows the proof size limit for that barrel of .719, which is halfway between the nominal 12g and the 13g.

The 13 shows the proof size limit for that barrel of .710 which is the proof limit for 13g.

If the size of either of these barrels exceeds the limit of these nominal sizes then the gun is out of proof, and if you wish to have it re-proofed then you will have to see if it needs to be skimmed out to remove any pitting. If you do have to have it bored out then see if it can be taken out to .729 (nominal 12g) and then struck up before having it re-proofed.

Take it to a gunsmith and ask him whether he thinks it will survive re-proofing, if not, then just enjoy owning it, and if possible see if you can get some BP cartridges to shoot though it.

G.M.

[davhope]

Thanks for the replys, will try to post some more photos of this and g some clearer ones with proof marks,

Unfortunately I think its shooting days are over but due to reasons of sentiment I would never get rid of it.

Regards David.

[Gemini]

What an absolute tragedy for an old gun like that. But!! don’t ever say die, because I found an old back-action hammergun in similar condition a couple of years ago and it turned out to be a gem and, one that gets taken out once in a while to be shot with 25 grm training cartridges.

 

G.M.

[davhope]

You werent by chance out shooting in the borders with that gun on friday were you?

Because if not it has a double,

I even handled it I think,

Regards David.

[Gemini]

No such luck, but if you handled a Chas Osborne then it could be its brother.

G.M.

[wabbitbosher]

Check this out

Complements of the Internet Gun Club

 

http://www.internetgunclub.com/general/HistoryDetails.php

 

Thanks all at the IGC

 

William Hardy

Hardy Brothers; Hardy Brothers (Alnwick) Ltd; House Of Hardy

Paikes Street

Fenckle Street (Bondgate Without)

 

 

 

 

 

Alnwick

Northumberland

 

United Kingdom

Gunsmith & Fishing Tackle Manufacturer

5 South Street, David Street, Edinburgh; 101 Princes Street, Edinburgh; 12-14 Moult Street, Manchester; 61 Pall Mall, London; 15 Pall Mall, London; 61 Pall Mall, London

1872-date

Notes

William Hardy established his business in 1872 at Paikes Street, Alnwick, Northumberland as a gunsmith, whitesmith and cutler. The following year his brother John James Hardy joined him and the firm became Hardy Brothers. Both brothers were enthusiastic fishermen, and they started making greenheart rods, changing to bamboo rods in 1880. They were the first to produce hexagonal split cane rods. It is not known whether or not the firm made guns themselves, but they supplied and repaired them and loaded cartridges from about 1870. In 1883 the shop was at Fenckle Street, Alnwick. Robert Henry Hardy and Foster Hardy, the other two brothers, joined the business, which in 1888 started to make reels. In 1890 a factory was established at Bondgate Without, Alnwick, and in 1894 a further shop at 5 South Street, David Street, Edinburgh. In 1895 an additional shop was opened at 12-14 Moult Street, Manchester, and in 1897 the firm opened at 61 Pall Mall. In 1907 the firm became a limited liability company, Hardy Brothers (Alnwick) Ltd. At some time the firm gained a Royal Appointment (to The King), but for what is unknown. During the depression the firm stopped selling and repairing guns, and although they had thought the manufacture of golf clubs could replace the loss of the gun business, they ceased manufacture of these in 1933. During the first and Second World Wars the company was involved in munitions production. In London in 1944, possibly due to war damage, the company moved temporarily to 15 Pall Mall. In 1951 61 Pall Mall was re-occupied. The company ceased supplying guns at some time during the 1950s. The Harris & Sheldon Group Ltd bought the company in 1967, changing the name to House of Hardy Ltd in 1985.

Other Info

The club is able to give some information on serial numbers and dates, email archives@internetgunclub.com with details of your gun. The firm sold shotgun cartridges under the names "Hardy's Northern", "Hardy's Northern High Velocity" and "Hardy's Reliance".