first time reloading help please

[stevelandy]

Hi I'm having trouble with powder i'm reloading .223 rem. norma brass , varget powder , the data says between 25 / 28 grain if i put 26 in it fills up the neck , using rcbs scales and a set of digital scales they both tally, wot does anyone else use thanks Steve

[Harnser]

Thats a compressed load and is normal with some powder loads in rifle cases. I get the same thing with 47 grains of vit 140 in my 308 . Double ,double check the weight of the powder , if your scales are weighing correctly then go ahead and load .

 

Harnser .

[Kes]

Harnser is right its a compressed load with the powder I use Vit 133. In my case the 26.0 grains allows the bullet to be seated without a loss of powder u just need to be careful - it may be that Varget is a bit more granular and therefore more idfficult to fit but if you tap it gently on a flat and slightly cushioned surface it should settle to allow you to seat the bullet.

[al4x]

Back it off I used to get 26.5 grains in a norma case yet lapua would only take 26 I wouldn't start with compreSsed loads

[Vipa]

what bullet are you using... I'll have a look at alternative powders for you.

[Harnser]

Better to have the case fuller with the correct weight of powder than to have a large empty space in the case . Some powders will take up more of the volume of the case than the equivalant weight of a different powder . Its the weight of the powder you are looking for and not the volume that the powder is taking up . Yes give the case a gentle tap down on the bench and you will see the powder settle down further in the case .

 

Harnser .

Edited June 10, 2011 by Harnser

[ostrea]

Loading my 223 with H - VARGET 26 grains in winchester norma and hornaday cases with room to spare 55g v max Bullet.

 

Recepie in Lee modern reloading book 55g bullet H VARGET START 25.5 NOT TO EXEED 27.5

[Vipa]

Better to have the case fuller with the correct weight of powder than to have a large empty space in the case . Some powders will take up more of the volume of the case than the equivalant weight of a different powder . Its the weight of the powder you are looking for and not the volume that the powder is taking up . Yes give the case a gentle tap down on the bench and you will see the powder settle down further in the case .

 

Harnser .

 

Quite probably but as Alex says, 10% compressed load is possibly not the most sensible thing for a first time reloader to go with. Looking at quickload, Varget isn't probably going to be the most efficient powder either with only 90% burn for a 55gr projectile. There will be better powders out there.. difficult without knowing what bullet is being used but Vhit N140 will keep the velocity around the same but will not be a compressed load and gives a more efficient burn..

[al4x]

Varget works fine with 55's my other thought is are the scales weighing correctly as 26 grains should fit fine.

[stevelandy]

I'm only taking advice from my local dealer , 40 gn v max , should i start at 25.5 and then work up in .1s till i get to 26 then try them

[al4x]

What brass are you using?

[stevelandy]

norma brass the digital scales match up with the rcbs ones

[Vipa]

.223 Remington (Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 7th & 8th Editions)

 

Warning! Notes: rifle: Remington 700; barrel: 26 inch, 1 in 12 inch Twist; case: Winchester; primer: Winchester WSR; bullet diameter: 0.224 inches; maximum C.O.L.: 2.260 inches; max. case length: 1.760 inches; case trim length: 1.750 inches

Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.

 

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-4198 19.3 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-4198 20.0 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-4198 20.7 3,500

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-4198 21.5 3,600

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-4198 22.2 3,700

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N120 19.5 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N120 20.3 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N120 21.0 3,500

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N130 21.6 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N130 22.3 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N130 23.0 3,500

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N130 23.8 3,600

 

40 Hornady V-Max Vihtavuori VV-N130 24.5 3,700

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Accurate AAC-2460 24.1 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Accurate AAC-2460 24.9 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Accurate AAC-2460 25.6 3,500

 

40 Hornady V-Max Accurate AAC-2460 26.4 3,600

 

40 Hornady V-Max Accurate AAC-2460 27.1 3,700

 

40 Hornady V-Max Accurate AAC-2460 27.8 3,800

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon H-335 24.3 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon H-335 25.1 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon H-335 25.9 3,500

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon H-335 26.6 3,600

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon H-335 27.4 3,700

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Alliant RL-10X 23.0 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Alliant RL-10X 23.6 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Alliant RL-10X 24.1 3,500

 

40 Hornady V-Max Alliant RL-10X 24.6 3,600

 

40 Hornady V-Max Alliant RL-10X 25.2 3,700

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Ramshot TAC 24.3 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Ramshot TAC 25.1 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Ramshot TAC 25.9 3,500

 

40 Hornady V-Max Ramshot TAC 26.7 3,600

 

40 Hornady V-Max Ramshot TAC 27.5 3,700

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon Benchmark 24.7 3,300

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon Benchmark 25.6 3,400

 

40 Hornady V-Max Hodgdon Benchmark 26.4 3,500

Remarks: maximum load

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-8208 XBR 26.2 3300

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-8208 XBR 26.7 3400

 

40 Hornady V-Max IMR IMR-8208 XBR 27.0 3500

Remarks: maximum load

 

 

©2011 PPC, INC. All Rights Reserved. LoadData is registered in the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office

[Vipa]

Quickload showing 26gr Varget as being an 8.1% compressed load, 3298fps and only 82% powder burn with 24" barrel - 19.2% ballistic efficiency... 30% is where you want to be if not more

Edited June 10, 2011 by Vipa

[Vipa]

Here's Quickloads list of solutions, striving for 100% useable case capacity filled and 3,300fps obviously some will give you more velocity than others. The more propellant burnt the better (in most cases)

 

QuickLOAD223.pdf

[stevelandy]

Sory thats over my head , are you saying it's the wrong powder or to much of it

[ostrea]

Seems very strange as i said i have pleanty of room in the case using same powder, i give each case a a flick of the finger to settle the powder in the case. What is the overall length of the case is it possible the case has been trimmed to short?

[Vipa]

Sory thats over my head , are you saying it's the wrong powder or to much of it

 

 

 

The post before that is the hornady reloading book suggestions, Varget is not mentioned. Personally I would go with the bullet manufacturers recommendations. Varget will work, not the most efficient and there are probably better out there. As long as you are sure of your powder weights, there's nothing wrong with a compressed load, just not something I wouldn't have been comfortable with when I started reloading.

 

You want the case as full as possible. 1. The smaller the airspace the more consistent each burn will be and 2. it makes double charging difficult and visually checking your charges easier.

 

The Quickload PDF showed all the different powders available that would fill your case completely and their corresponding predicted performance.. purely for reference. (remember, when talking about filling the case 100%, we are taking into consideration the space the seated bullet will occupy, not filling to the top)

 

Always start 10% below your target load and check for pressure signs as you go, don't just go for the max straight off as that may not be ok in your particular rifle and could be dangerous.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Vipa

[Vipa]

Seems very strange as i said i have pleanty of room in the case using same powder, i give each case a a flick of the finger to settle the powder in the case. What is the overall length of the case is it possible the case has been trimmed to short?

 

That would suggest his powder weights are wrong as QL predicts an 8% compression at 26gr but that takes into account the space taken up by the bullet. That would agree with your experience ostrea. QL states case overflow is at 28.8gr but Steve is getting overflow at 26gr

[stevelandy]

Thanks for all your help I'll start a lot lower and let you know how i get on thanks again, Steve

[Vipa]

Thanks for all your help I'll start a lot lower and let you know how i get on thanks again, Steve

 

Don't go too low steve, too little powder can cause dangerous pressure spikes too!

 

If you are sticking with Varget use the recomended minimum load as your starting point so I think you mentioned 25gr, make a couple up at that, a couple at say, 25.3, 25.6, .9 etc... check the fired cases carefully for pressure signs before moving up to the next ones, stiff bolt, boltface imprinting on the case head, primer flattening & firing pin cratering etc.. (neck separation is a dead giveaway ) Follow this proceedure until you get to the load you are aiming at.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Vipa

[al4x]

Sory thats over my head , are you saying it's the wrong powder or to much of it

 

beware of the experts on here with quickload and no experience of the caliber or powder you are using

 

 

having had a few thoughts about it you are using the same brass as I used to use, 26.5 in mine wasn't a compressed load which is interesting but it was near capacity. That suggests the software can't account for a fair few factors so ignore it. I loaded with someone using lapua brass where 26 was the max without compressing.

 

My first thought as to why you can't fit the same amount in the same case is are you full length resizing or neck resizing? If full length then that may be an answer, as for the way forward I would drop to a figure that is just below making it a compressed load and start there. Then ignore the powder factor for the moment and worry about how far you are setting the bullet back from the lands that tends to be where you get more variation in accuracy. If its a load for field shooting then you will soon find a load that works for you.

Just to reassure you Varget and .223 work very well together it will be doing over 3000fps even with a 25 grain load

[Vipa]

beware of the experts on here with quickload and no experience of the caliber or powder you are using

 

 

having had a few thoughts about it you are using the same brass as I used to use, 26.5 in mine wasn't a compressed load which is interesting but it was near capacity. That suggests the software can't account for a fair few factors so ignore it. I loaded with someone using lapua brass where 26 was the max without compressing.

 

My first thought as to why you can't fit the same amount in the same case is are you full length resizing or neck resizing? If full length then that may be an answer, as for the way forward I would drop to a figure that is just below making it a compressed load and start there. Then ignore the powder factor for the moment and worry about how far you are setting the bullet back from the lands that tends to be where you get more variation in accuracy. If its a load for field shooting then you will soon find a load that works for you.

Just to reassure you Varget and .223 work very well together it will be doing over 3000fps even with a 25 grain load

 

Stop being an argumentative, arrogant *** Alex... the guy was asking for help and the principles are the same for all calibres. Funny you say ignore Quickload, thats what most of the manufacturers use to come up with the data for their loading manuals!

 

You make far too many assumptions... It may be 20 odd years since I used 5.56mm and admit, I have never reloaded that calibre... did I ever say I had or claim to be an expert. I posted MANUFACTURER and INDUSTRY TRUSTED data rather than personal opinions. For your information, I use Varget in both my 6.5 and .308. The kernels are quite big and therefor occupy more volume than other powders for a given weight. With my .308 QL was telling me I had a compressed load and yet had plenty of free space which is what worries me. Steves cases are overflowing well before he reaches max load. Even at 28gr, there should be space in the neck.

 

At 26 grains, Steve is filling his cases to the brim... that would mean it would be impossible to get to the max suggested load of 28gr as 2 gr of it will be on the reloading table ad even at 26 gr... would you compress a load from the brim of the neck down Regardless of brass manufacture or sizing method, that would suggest an issue is present! also, according to HODGDON... 28gr will be pushing the bullet out at almost 3,800fps... they also state a compressed load. Looks like you should be contacting all the bullet and powder manufacturers Alex... You need to tell them all they are all wrong!

 

And Steve... Get someone to check your powder weights, then you will be sure your scales are right. Then, stick to the manufacturers recommended mins and max, DO NOT use load information based on someone elses rifle. What is safe for them may not be safe in yours.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Vipa

[al4x]

Its not being argumentative its about what actually happens with the same caliber and powder and in fact same brass.

Varget fills the cases nicely it works well you were rubbishing his setup with no experince of it. As for an unsafe load he is on the lower end of hogdons advice so it should be perfectly safe to drop to a load that goes in the case. As he had used two sets of scales to check the load we have to assume the brass is reasonably thick hence not taking 26 grains seems oDd but not impossible if full length sized and may be different next time if neck sized only. That's the only difference I can think oft

[Vipa]

Steve... We can make this a little more scientific to remove as many concerns as possible.

 

Sounds a little whacky but.... If you are neck sizing - take one of your fired cases (with the spent primer stil in it) and weigh it. Then carefully fill it with water (make sure there aren't any bubbles in it) Then weigh it with the water in it. I need to know the difference in weight in grains.

 

If you are full length sizing, take the de-capping pin out of your die and resize a case, then follow the procedure above and let me know the weight of water the case will hold.

 

As long as you aren't using loads of different typs of brass I can feed that data into the system and it will then give fill and pressure data tailored to your cases. If you are still overflowing at that point when you shouldn't be then it may be worth sitting down with an experienced reloader to double check what you are doing, just to keep you safe.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Vipa