al4x Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 These have been launched in a blaze of publicity but it appears all is not quite as it seems, they simply book a third party courier to do the delivery and seem to leave the paperwork up to you. So basically you give parcelforce your firearm and they transport it to the RFD at the other end, to my mind if it was that simple you could do it yourself for a fraction their charge. The first time parcelforce loose one and it will happen is when the proverbial will hit the fan, at that point you've booked it to be moved by some third party on the internet and handed it over to any old parcelforce driver, the only defence is the company you booked with is an RFD but the gun wasn't handed to them just someone on their behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) would you just give your gun to a courier, they are it seems effectively a one man band with a supposed loophole on sending guns. I've not dealt with and indeed they only open tomorrow but the marketing doesn't say you give your rifle to a courier driver and they send it to the local rfd. If it was that simple you could walk into your own RFD and ask them to put a third party collection request in for a gun you were buying, job done £5 surcharge for a third party collection by TNT / parcelforce rather than the route most people go down of signing it over to an RFD who then sends to another who completes the paperwork. The marketing is pretty mis leading implying they are the ones doing the delivery and this bearing in mind it wasn't live at the point it was "growing" http://www.tandgmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=315&Itemid=54 If it works then great but then anyone with RFD status could start just booking collections from private FAC holders on their own courier account which would make things far easier for all of us Edited June 28, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 this is some of the spiel, doesn't exactly tally with parcel force collecting the gun from you going through their network and delivering to a local RFD to the buyer. Doesn't exactly tally with the email exchange shown on the first link All RFD Net staff can inspect and verify all firearms on collection and delivery. This in turn means that the firearms or ammunition never leaves the secure possession of a firearms dealer during the full satellite tracking, door-to-door service. To a degree, the RFD Net driver will actually complete necessary certifi cate paperwork as part of the delivery service, irrespective of whether it is for a shop or private individual. Also unlike other shipping companies, RFD Net’s central hub is one of the most secure in the business. It is fully armoured so that the firearms’ security in storage is guaranteed while in the building and during transit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Alex If you delve a bit deeper it will find that their initial method of collection/delivery has, in the last week, changed considerably. Initially their press releases ( http://www.tandgmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=315&Itemid=34)and website stated that they, as RFD's, would arrange to collect your purchase from the seller and deliver it to you at your home. This they were able to do because as a RFD they would attend to and be responsible for the necessary paperwork. They stated that approval had been sought and granted following discussions with the GTA and the ACPO. However, about a week ago the wording on their website changed and now the service they offer is, as you describe, delivery to RFD only. Perhaps they have now been advised that their initial business plan, which was announced with great fanfare, was not within the law and would suggest that they did not do their homework as thoroughly as they might. I had considered trying them but I now have this rather uneasy feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'd heard the initial fanfare and having a courier background thought how the hell does it work, an RFD to collect and trunk the guns and one to deliver for that price wasn't possible. So with that in mind you realised the middle stage had to be a large player in the courier game which makes it almost viable, but now the contents of the e-mails to a prospective customer made me rather more uneasy. They effectively are acting as the collection RFD without ever checking the guns and simply acting as a booking agent with a major courier company funnily enough in one of their own releases there is a report saying parcelforce won't do collections from private individuals. http://www.rfdnet.net/PDF/Gun_Trade_News_RFDNET_Service.pdf Ok they may have got round this but there is a lot of positive PR going on while they try and make it work. Really it needs a serious look at by BASC firearms dept or similar as it smacks of someone finding out it is iffy the hard way which will be when parcelforce loose a gun which will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I thought an RFD could arrange collection from the cert holders address (and from cert holder only) by approved courier and then to their address and from RFD to Cert holder already? I have been at RFD's when TNT have turned up and they just drop them off like normal deliveries? I can see how it works for RFD's for repair and service of a clients guns but not how a cert holder can send to another cert holder or have it removed from their CERT unless courier driver is the RFD? Or can RFD's "agents" do the paperwork on their behalf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'm not but not sure on the relevance, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome of the Woods Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Well, i have booked a collection on friday so i will report back on the service but i can say this, they charged me £2.50 to pay with a DEBIT card, never mind a credit card, that really is a sneaky practice that is under investigation this week amongst airlines. That is, as it costs around 20p to process a debit card, and around 2.5% for a credit card transaction. Well it did a while ago when I worked in retail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 That is, as it costs around 20p to process a debit card, and around 2.5% for a credit card transaction. Well it did a while ago when I worked in retail. 20-50p is normal but i thought there was legal thing where you could only charge the cost of the transaction and not just add what you wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, i have booked a collection on friday so i will report back on the service but i can say this, they charged me £2.50 to pay with a DEBIT card, never mind a credit card, that really is a sneaky practice that is under investigation this week amongst airlines. I take it the idea that you just hand your rifle to a parcelforce driver is one you are happy with, fingers crossed they don't loose it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 thats all right then I take it the e-mail as per the SD is correct then, the gun gets collected by a driver not checked just like any other parcel and then gets delivered to a local RFD to the other party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 link on the first page stalking directory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 If what they are doing is technically legal then it may work, what was somewhat surprising with their e-mails was suggesting its still your job to fill in the other partys ticket etc and how they are rapidly changing the setup to try and get the business going while issues crop up. This happens with any new business but if this was that simple then you should be able to walk into any RFD and ask them to collect a gun for you from a license holder and return it to them. That way only one set of RFD fees and one courier charge now if it was that simple you'd only have the obstacles of the RFD maybe not wanting to do it. The issues though are your liability as regards to paperwork and filling in the other partys ticket and making sure everything is legit. This Lee character seems to think everyone else is wrong with regard to the law and moving guns via courier its an interesting one and personally I'd let it run a while before trying, I've a guy who used to work for me who set up a company much like parcel to go and the likes which effectively is all RFDnet are doing subbing work to larger carriers. He moves all sorts and spends all day everyday dealing with missing and damaged parcels and failed collections, its that sort of knowledge that would make me very wary of this kind of setup with guns. Thats bearing in mind our responsibility for safe keeping and the fact they are often high value items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Fister are you an RFD? If not then how often are you shipping firearms around? If you shift a few can you not get a local RFD to do it for you? IF you are an RFD then Join the Gun Trade Association offers a lot more than just reduced rates on couriers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Interesting wording from parcel force terms and conditions, the interesting bit is whether the "customer" is the account holder or the collection point. ARMS AND AMMUNITION All firearms including: imitations and antiques; paint-ball or toy guns; taser guns; air rifles and all other items similar to, or resembling the foregoing are prohibited. All ammunition (including components thereof) and airgun pellets are also prohibited. Section 1 and 2 arms and firearms may be permitted for Zone 1 to Zone 1 collections and deliveries for account customers only, subject to prior written agreement being provided by Parcelforce Worldwide to the Customer, such agreement to be given at Parcelforce Worldwide's absolute discretion. Zone 1 to Zone 1 Collections and deliveries of Section 1 and 2 arms and firearms will only be accepted where it can be shown to Parcelforce Worldwide's satisfaction that both the Customer and the addressee are registered firearm dealers. All types of firearms are prohibited from import and export to and from the UK. Further information about UK firearms law can be obtained from the Home Office.Tel: 020 7035 4848 What I'm also wondering is whether I could open an account bung a load of our work through to meet the use criteria and then do RFD to RFD shipments. Presumably it would entirely depend on definition of customer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I dont move enough to comply with parcelforce account rules and for TNT you must have GTA membership which is prohibitively expensive £200 Prohibitively expensive? So you are an RFD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Only for testing and evaluation purposes, not retail But you have an RFD cert which makes you "trade" rather than joe public (i.e. you have register and enter firearms on to that when they arrive then leave?) potential business opportunity offer RFD shipping/receiving services to people in your area for cost + a bit open TNT account via GTA or Parcel Farce and get reduced rates for your self at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Regardless, the sums dont add up:-( Looks like you may be stuck then mate (how did you operate before RFDnet?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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