Frenchieboy Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I've been out with the Mossberg 9200 and crow decoys this afternoon and had a few problems that I would like your thoughts/opinions on. My shotgun was firing Clear Pigeon and Black Gold 30 grm 6 shot cartridges without any problems and recycled them perfectly, but as soon as I tried a few cartridges out of a box of Winchester GB 30grm 6s that I had been given I started getting missfires, in fact only 1 out of the first 4 cratridges from that box actually fired so I gave up on them. On inspection of the cartridges that failed to fire it was evident that the furing pin had struck them but it did not seem to have hit them as hard as with the other cartridges I had been using. Just to double check that it wasn't the firing pin or hammer spring I went back to a few Pigeon Specials that I had left and the gun behaved perfectly again without missing a beat. Has anyone else experienced this or do any members have any thoughts or ideas on what the problem might be please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Shaw Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 hard primers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) I use winchester GBs and they are a excellent cartridge ,but it seems like you have some dodgy ones in which the primer cap has been seated a little low ,therfore you dont get such a good strike on it from the pin I had a similar problem years ago with some rottwiel shells. could also be that your pin is getting a little worn. Edited November 24, 2011 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) I use winchester GBs and they are a excellent cartridge ,but it seems like you have some dodgy ones in which the primer cap has been seated a little low ,therfore you dont get such a good strike on it from the pin I had a similar problem years ago with some rottwiel shells. could also be that your pin is getting a little worn. I know what you are saying about the firing pin getting worn and my first suspicions were either that or the hammer spring was getting weak. This suspicion was however cancelled out when I went back to using either Clear Pigeon or Black Gold cartridges and the pin was hitting them quite hard without any missfires! The cartridges show that the indentation from the strike on the Winchester GBs is not anywhere as hard on either of the other two makes both before and after the missfires on the Winchesters. Edit: I'll put a short video up showing what happened in a few minutes to give you a better idea. Edited November 24, 2011 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Here's a short video clip that will show what is happening when I use Winchester GB cartridges compared to Clear Pigeon Cartridges in my Mossberg 9200. I hope that this will give you a better idea than me just typing what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 As I said ,if the primer is sitting low the strike will not be as hard on it ,and if the primer is low and the pin slightly worn it will be worse still, but if the pin is slightly worn you would likely get away with shooting shells that have the primer seated correctly. Try putting a straight edge across the bottom of the winchester and a clear pigeon and see if the primer is sitting low on the winchester by comparing the gap by eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Nothing to do with your post but may i ask where your getting Winchester shell's from as i rate the to be one of the best Ps, i think your problem is a batch of hard primers , take them back and ask for them to be replaced . Cannot find any Winchester shells over here nor have i for the last few years a great shame IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I brought a 1000 from my local RFD last year ,but he does not stock them now as the price got too high,think I have around 300 left now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) In answer to Magman I got these from my local RFD - I believe that there are what is left of a large order he had stocked up with. I'm not even sure that he has any boxes left now, not that I want any after these! In answer to Fenboy - The primers do seem to be sitting just fractionally lower on the Winchesters than they are on the Clear Pigeon, but the difference really is only very minimal! The one Winchester that did fire does appear to have the primer just fractionally higher than the ones that failed to fire. If you look closely at the short video clip it is fairly clear that the "strike" on the Clear Pigeon is much harder than the "strike" on either of the Winchesters. Edited November 24, 2011 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 It only takes a fraction ,I would just take them back and they should swap them ,or if you have another gun its worth trying them in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It only takes a fraction ,I would just take them back and they should swap them ,or if you have another gun its worth trying them in that. I am inclined to agree with you and think that the best thing to do is to take them back to the RFD that I got them from. He is a close and personal friend and obviously has different guns that they can be tried in. I have to go and see him tomorrow to video some ostritches being slaughtered anyway. I'm not worried about the price of them, it's only a couple of quid but I think that in future I will stay with either the 70mm Clear Pigeon or Black Gold in 30grm 6 shot that I know my gun likes and I do have reasonably good success with them anyway. It saves a lot of potential problems. I really only posted this as I was interested in what might have caused the problem and if others had found similar problems. I am grateful for your advice and thoughts! Just as an after thought, I was using the same gun last Sunday with Hull Comp X 67mm 28grm 7.5 shot cartridges and had no problem with them either, maybe my shotgun is just as tetchy as I am about what it is fed with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Another box could be fine ,they are a very good cartridge ,when I had the problem with the rottwiels they would fire in one barrel but not the other ,just the combination of the primer being a little low and the pin in the one barrel a little more worn than the other was enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It appears that the indentation of the firing pin on all the cartridges shown on the video are slightly off centre on the primer. I think that also has a bearing on the misfires if the Winchester primers are slightly harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It appears that the indentation of the firing pin on all the cartridges shown on the video are slightly off centre on the primer. I think that also has a bearing on the misfires if the Winchester primers are slightly harder. Yes, that is true, the indent from the firing pin is slightly off centre. I have just checked a handfull of other cartridges fired (Various makes) from this shotgun and they are all the same but they did all fire except for the Winchesters so I don't think that is too much of a problem - Maybe a little (Only minimal) wear in the block that the firing pin goes through. I think that the main part of the problem "could" be that thw Winchester primers are slightly harder so I will just continue using the Clear Pigeon or Black Gold cartridges that I know my shotgun will fire without any problems. Thanks for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Just a quick follow up: I was up at my mates place yesterday videoing some ostriches being slaughtered and derssed and while I was there I had a word with my mate about these Winchester cartridges. He tried a few in his over and under and he too got a couple of missfires. We have come to the conclusion that the primers are particularly hard and that they sit down a little further in the end cap than normal so they are likely from a bad batch. He had given me a dozen Victory 70mm cartridges loaded with 35g of 5 shot to try on the crows with my Mossberg - Unfortunately I didn't have the gun with me or I would have tried them there and then. My back is giving me real stick this morning and it is raining cats and dogs so will not be able to try them for a while but if my gun gets on fine with them (When I get a chance to try them) he has a couple of slabs of them and says that I can have half a dozen boxes of them. I'll keep you posted when I get the chance to try them! Thanks to all who offered some input to this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.