-Mongrel- Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I need to find an alternative to steel as I want to use a Beretta 301 on the marsh, but it's not steel proofed. As I understand it, I can use Bismuth or Hevi-shot through the gun...is that correct? Do you have to go up a shot size with these as you would steel (ie if you were using a no4 lead cart it would be a 3 in steel)? Do you have the same choke restrictions that you have with steel ie no tighter than half choke? Are there any other viable alternatives? Finally....and I'm already donning the asbestos suit for this one, what is the likely outcome of using steel through the Beretta if I follow the choking rules and, is it legal to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Bismuth or tungsten matrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Cheers for the response, I must admit that I was hoping for something a bit more expansive though! Edited December 9, 2011 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was just listing the options I think the idea is that they have a similar density to lead and therefore fly better than the steel so you don't need the same pressure to fire them so an older gun can be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 You can use standard steel with half choke no problems It isn't the best of stuff If using steel you are probably best off using 2s or 3s for duck and maybe keeping some tungsten geese carts in a pocket Some people get on with steel and some can't You just can't use the high performance steel which is usually 3" I hate to think what might happen to you and the gun if you hp steel and tight chokes Tungsten is better than bismuth and heavy shot is better still Regards Archi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 This is quite a good little link, though a bit out of date pricewise it should give you a good idea of what's available. http://www.kwacs.org.uk/nontoxic.html You could get away with the lighter steel loads in your Beretta, and going no tighter than 1/2 choke. For distant ducks and geese you're going to have to put your hand in your pocket I'm afraid. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) . Edited December 9, 2011 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Interesting, but also spawns another question. The link Poontang pt up contained the following 'Please note that there are other forms of Tungsten shot which are of a Tungsten Iron mixture that are not suitable for British made guns.' However on the Gamebore website I read about Tungsten matrix, as well as TMX which appears to be a Tunsten and steel shot mix, any thoughts on that? Gamebore link Edited December 9, 2011 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Yep, Gamebore ITM (Impact Tungsten Matrix) is good stuff, performs pretty much the same as lead and can be used in the same way as lead ie. choke selection is not limited. Not cheap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IEH Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I'm in a similar situation with a Beretta A303. GMK advised that standard steel loads were OK and Express confirmed that I could use Hevi-shot, both advised half choke or less. So far I've stuck with Bismuth though! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) Have a GOOD look through this thread especially towards the last few pages http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/182578-cant-find-the-flyer-de-lys-symbol-on-my-urika-2/page__fromsearch__1 Also here at points 2 and 9 mainly http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/BAC60995-5CBE-4047-8AD032DF16AD1F1A That should answer your questions mate. Edited December 10, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 first of all, hevishot is an alloy. the main component of it is tungsten. tungsten is way harder than steel, harder than the steel used for barrels. the steel shot has a hardness of 50-60. hevishot should be treated as steel shot where gun suitability is concerned. tungsten has a hardness of about 220. it will scratch and score the barrel. even more than steel shot. tungsten matrix and itm, are tungsten, but a different make up. first its not an alloy, it is powderd tungsten sintered together with a binding agent, (glue or a polymer) this makes soft shot. this can be spotted as it has a casting band around the waist of the pellets. there are several types of sintered shot. impact tungsten matrix should be treated like lead. it is quite close to a barrel friendly alternate. iron tungsten matrix is slightly harder, and needs a strong plastic wad. bismuth is an alloy, usually with upto 10% tin. i`ve used the old stuff. i will never use bismuth again. dr evil is correct those are very safe alternates. bismuth being my last choice tungsten matrix being my first. you can actually get pure tungsten shot, which has awsome shot properties. at 18g /cc it is twice the density of lead. so classic 7.5 shot is equivalent to lead #1, the americans are shooting geese with the stuff in #9. it doesnt need to go fast, 1400fps will punch through thick steel, but they are using 9mm shot. my advice would be to buy impact tungsten matrix shells and have total piece of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I may have a box of tungsten matrix (tmx) if you fancy them just pm me as I have know use for them now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I may have a box of tungsten matrix (tmx) if you fancy them just pm me as I have know use for them now The BASC link you posted makes for interesting reading but I am going to try some of the alternatives. I do seem to be missing quite a bit on the marsh, far more than my clay ground averages suggest I should be anyway. As such, you have PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 One thing worth remembering is a clay is slowing were as teal are still screaming along at 60 mph with the wind up thier **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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