Labrador having 'fits'

[-Mongrel-]

I have a four year old Chocolate Lab who is a great retriever, we have been starting training which has been progressing pretty well, all looked promising until she had another seizure last night.

 

This is now the third over the last 18 months or so, so they're not exactly common but...it's got me worried. They are not full on fits, they are more of a seizure, she will go completely rigid but does seem to still be aware of what's going on and never loses consciousness, she will as I say just go completely tense and voids both her bladder and bowels involuntarily. The attacks have so far taken a two part form, she will have the initial attack and then a couple of minutes after she seems to be coming round she has a second milder dose.

 

The first one occurred after being startled out of sleep and whacking herself on a cupboard as she tried to jump up, the second she collided head on with our other dog, he's twice her size so she just kinda clattered to a stop. Last nights I don't know what happened but, she would probably have been asleep again before the attack.

 

I have now decided that we definitely won't breed from her, and I'm concerned about taking her 'fowling next year. I'm worried that the 'shock' of hitting the cold water or something else may set her off ... which would be a bad thing, especially in the middle of a freezing harbour!

 

I am vaguely aiming this at Apache and any other vets that may be on here, although anyone else with any relevant experience or advice would be interesting.

Edited December 20, 2011 by -Mongrel-

[mpk]

Also the issues with fitting or seizures is the water. If it happens there then you have a serious problem. I personally (and it's only my opinion) would not use her as a fowling dog if the fits/seizures are that frequent and get her straight down the vet mate !

[-Mongrel-]

Have just edited the post to say that these episodes are over an 18 month period rather than all recently. I did say that the major concern is an attack in the harbour water although she regularly swims and not been a problem thus far.

 

She went to the vets after the first but they didn't seem too concerned, it was a kind of 'labs are prone to them, see how she gets on, so long as they aren't happening all the time it's not so bad' attitude.

[apache]

Fits in young dogs usually turn out to be idiopathic epilepsy. Your vet may decide to run some bloods to rule out other causes but extensive tests are usually not required. Medication tends to centre around medication to make seizures much less likely. Initially the dog can be a bit sleepy but they return to normal in a few weeks. Occasional blood tests are required to check the level of the drug. The dog can lead a perfectly normal life on the medication and could work fine. You can get flotation devices for dogs to wear that can be an added safety feature.

 

What happens if you don't treat? The fits will get more frequent and happen more often. It works like learning a new skill, the first time you try to drive it takes a lot of mental effort but the more you do the easier it gets.

 

You need to make an appointment with your vet and have a chat with them.

[-Mongrel-]

Cool, ok, at least it's potentially manageable, I'll book an appointment, Thanks.

[ziplex]

A mate of mine has a black lab who has suffered from occasional full on knock the furniture out the way fits....apparently they were awful. The vet did say though that the type of fit he has will only happen going into a deep sleep or coming out of one so says wildfowling will never be a problem...which it hasn't been in over 4/5 years or so since being diagnosed. He has said if the fits were to get regular he'd rather have him put to sleep as opposed to have him drugged up but apart from an odd one since being quite regular years ago he's been fine

 

Our GSP had a fit when she was a pup but the vet put it down to an embolism as she'd cracked her head real hard on a coffee table edge a day or so prior, thankfully she's not had one since.

 

As far as I know, and Apache will be far better at explaining it, there are various causes for fits?

 

Either way, good luck

[paul041075]

My fox red lab started having fits/seizures when he was about 7. He started coming over to me or the mrs and looking really scared and then having to lie down whilst the fit was happening. He didnt foam or anything and knew that we were there, nor did he empty his bladder. He was more frightened to what was happening than anything, fits use to last upto five minutes and fifteen minutes later it was as though nothing had happened.

 

This was happening every three months or so and had numerous tests at the vets who said they cant really test for epilepsy a while after it happens.

 

Anyway after various blood tests it was found that his thyroid levels were low, you wouldn't believe it as he was still active all day and when working in the field. He is now on thyroid tablets all the time and his levels are spot with blood tests every so often to check. Fingers crossed he hasn't had a fit since he has been on them, the last time in fact was at the peg on a shoot day.

 

All though he is nearly 9 now he is active as ever and works great.

 

So if you get your dogs bloods checked get them to do a test for the thyroid levels is what I would say.

 

Best of luck, sure your dog will be fine.

[dan-250]

My mums dog started having fits which turned up as a brain tumour when the vet found out. 1 day he was fine, then all of a sudden turned on us as he looked like he didn't even know us. Then a minute later he was fine again. After my brother was working on his bike and the dog biting his face, he was put down , all in the apace of 2 weeks. I hope your dog will be fine. An am sure it won't be that as he was around 9, All the best of luck.

[-Mongrel-]

Cheers guys, will be getting her up to the vet in the next day or so, give them their due, they are really good...know how to charge though! Thank God for pet insurance!!

 

I'm sure we'll get it sorted.

[Teal]

For what it's worth, had a labrador who had a "heart attack" completely collapsed and we thought that she was about to die on a shoot day. One of the other beaters asked whether she had hit her nose or been hit on the nose shortly before, and strangely enough I had seen it happen when the neighbouring beater was aggressively using his stick on the cover and hit the nose of our labrador (completely accidentally). It wasn't immediately that she collapsed, but very shortly afterwards, I didn't get the full details of it, but essentially a hit on the nose can overload the senses causing involuntary reactions in the dog. Fortunately after a few minutes she came round again and we never experienced this again with her.

 

I mention it as both of your incidents seem to involve the front of your dog connecting with another object, and so it could be a similar thing happening. Ask your vet about it, I'm sure he will be able to give you some guidance. Good luck.

[Kes]

Just a note of our experience and a caution that what happened to us may not happen to you - each dog and condition are individual.

 

Our dog was a white German Shepherd, first clue there because this type of GS is rare they tend to be inbred - this one we purchased from a Mr Plummer (yes) on the advice of the Kennel Club rep for GS's.

The dog was lovely and for its first 3/4 years absolutely fine. Then on the run up to Christmas it came into the lounge, saw he Christmas tree lights and collapsed. It was the first epileptic fit and the dog had them after that with increasing frequency.

The second fit followed in early feb, then the end of feb and then almost daily. The poor animal was unaware of what was happening/had happened and just went rigid, voided bowels etc.

Vets recommended tablets to control the fits and their frequency, but in our dog's case they were ineffectual and he stayed more or less the same.

We had somewhere to keep him that wasnt too much of a problem to clean but eventually it became obvious he wasnt going to improve. Despite loving the dog we had to put him first and in early March, had him put down. We all know what losing a dog is like and as a consequence of this experoience, I would caution anyone to check thoroughly a dogs pedigree, especially an 'unusual' breed. NO pedigree - dont buy, or at least get pet insurance, hope for the best but be prepared.

Our dogs problem was down to 'a closed gene pool'.

 

I hope everything turns out well for you and your dog. Do ask about side effects of drugs used to control any fits.

All the best Kes

[apache]

There must be a dozen different medications that we can use to control epilepsy in dogs. The most common (phenobarb) is cheap and effective. I would say that in 90% of cases it will achieve good control. If that fails or you get seizures happening despite an adequate dose of phenobarb we often add potassium bromide. Very old, very safe and effective, it just takes a while to get a steady blood level.

 

Don't be put off by these stories - an occasional dog may be difficult to stabilise but the great vast majority are managed very well with medication. I know a few epileptic people who lead a perfectly normal life.

 

Incidentally, some breeds are prone but the dogs specific breeding not a huge issue. ALL pedigree dogs are from ridiculously small gene pools anyway. That and I have seen epilepsy in breeds that aren't 'prone' and even in a crossbred.

[cracker]

She went to the vets after the first but they didn't seem too concerned, it was a kind of 'labs are prone to them, see how she gets on, so long as they aren't happening all the time it's not so bad' attitude.

 

Mongrel, hazard to say that most vets aren't terribly knowledgeable about gundogs in the first place - they're even less knowledgeable about something called EIC (exercise induced collapse), and still less aware of it on your side of the pond. I'd reckon that you and others who've responded to this thread with dogs beset by similar circumstances would want to look into it.

 

MG

[Smog On Tyne]

I have a 9 year old black bitch lab who started having fits, vet advised eplipesy and some medication. This if anything made the fits worse and the dog seemed 'stoned' staggering around.

 

i stopped the meds and the fits are now roughly every 6 months or so and she settles after them OK. I have some tamazipine for in case she fits more than 10 minutes to administor up her bm!!

[Kes]

There must be a dozen different medications that we can use to control epilepsy in dogs. The most common (phenobarb) is cheap and effective. I would say that in 90% of cases it will achieve good control. If that fails or you get seizures happening despite an adequate dose of phenobarb we often add potassium bromide. Very old, very safe and effective, it just takes a while to get a steady blood level.

 

Don't be put off by these stories - an occasional dog may be difficult to stabilise but the great vast majority are managed very well with medication. I know a few epileptic people who lead a perfectly normal life.

 

Incidentally, some breeds are prone but the dogs specific breeding not a huge issue. ALL pedigree dogs are from ridiculously small gene pools anyway. That and I have seen epilepsy in breeds that aren't 'prone' and even in a crossbred.

 

Our vet was involved with the dog from the time we first had him, his involvement and advice differed (obviously)from that now posted. It was his opinion then we followed and his agreement that the dog should be be put down. This was not a story, it was an experience and not very pleasant. We were not offered a range of drugs - just one, and the fits accelerated very rapidly. As I said at the time, dogs differ and our experience is no guide to what you will experience. I hope your experience with your dog reaches a much different conclusion and that the treatment is totally successful.

[paul041075]

I have a 9 year old black bitch lab who started having fits, vet advised eplipesy and some medication. This if anything made the fits worse and the dog seemed 'stoned' staggering around.

 

i stopped the meds and the fits are now roughly every 6 months or so and she settles after them OK. I have some tamazipine for in case she fits more than 10 minutes to administor up her bm!!

 

Ditto - have the same but as advised early afetr the thyroid levels were checked and sorted = no more fits. But everycase IS different!