ferguson_tom Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 My springer pup who we have had since xmas eve has so far pooed or peeed every night in her own crate, and i dont know how to stop her. The first 2 nights i put her in my collies crate in the bedroom with him and she slept all the way through about 7 hours no problem. I got here own crate on boxing day and first night she pooed everywhere and last night she went in about 3.30am (late night) but she woke us up at 6.00 after peeing in the bed so only 2 1/2 hours and she had done one before she went in. She has slept longer than this on the sofa!! so only thing i can think is anxiety. So what do i do next? I introduced her to the crate slowly and put her in a couple of times a day when we are awake and she hates it but calms down eventually and at night goes crazy but calms down after about 15mins. I must admit so far though everytime she has messed the crate i have taken her outside then put her in the crate upstairs with my collie which is not the best thing to do but easiest to get a decent night sleep. Would it be worth putting her crate in the bedroom or just clean hers downstair everytime she messes and just put her straight back in? I am a bit stuck as my collie went in the crate the first night we had him and never had any problems at all. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 To be honest,i have never really seen the need to shut a dog in a crate / cage. there are going to be "accidents" with any puppy but house training is one of the first and most basic of tasks which means watching the pup like a hawk all the time your with it and giving it a firm NO if it attempts to go inside the house and quickly taking it outside then praise once its done the business,really the best place for a gundog is outside and by taking the dog into bedrooms etc your only making a rod for your own back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_0787 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 How big is het crate? Pups don't like to mess their sleeping area so if the crate is too big but a box at one end to section off that area, that eat she will bark or whine should she need the toilet in the night. This is your que to get up and let het out. Then put her back in her crate, as I'm site you know, by letting her sleep with your collie you are just rewarding her for barking. The crate should be her safe place. With our last pup we doubts that putting a fleece blanket over the crate to make it more of a den really helped him at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_0787 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Fenboy, I understand your comments but I disagree. Yes if your dog is just a tool for work or if circumstances require kennel your dogs but the fact remains that for 80% of us our dogs are as much companions as they are gundogs and so they live indoors so that their companionship can be enjoyed. Yes pups need to be watched like a hawk but how do you do that at night? I am fully behind crate training as it works very well and keeps the pup out of harms way when you can't give it 100% attention. Your comments on house training are correct but how do you plan to correct the dog at night when you are asleep? As a pup will whine before messing their crate it gives you the opertunity to get up and take them outsite just as you would during the day so as not to undermind daytime toilet training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Fenboy, I understand your comments but I disagree. Yes if your dog is just a tool for work or if circumstances require kennel your dogs but the fact remains that for 80% of us our dogs are as much companions as they are gundogs and so they live indoors so that their companionship can be enjoyed. Yes pups need to be watched like a hawk but how do you do that at night? I am fully behind crate training as it works very well and keeps the pup out of harms way when you can't give it 100% attention. Your comments on house training are correct but how do you plan to correct the dog at night when you are asleep? As a pup will whine before messing their crate it gives you the opertunity to get up and take them outsite just as you would during the day so as not to undermind daytime toilet training. The point I am trying to make is that a "house" trained dog will not mess in its crate so that should be where the attention is focused during the day , my dog is my companion but he does not get into the house just as far as the consevatory,if the op thinks that a pup will go through the night without needing a number 1 or 2 then he is likely mistaken and perhaps should get up a couple of times in the night to let the dog outside , I know lots of working dogs live indoors,but that doe not alter the fact that if possible the "best" place for them is outdoors,particulary if they are are untrained as any decent gun dog trainer will tell you familys are one of the biggests barriers for dog training, for instance the dog is unlikely to have a soft mouth if the kids are playing tug of war with its toys while you are at work !. Granted not everyone wants a top dog but if you do the best place is outside ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Although she will be a gundog she is also a pet and so all our dogs will always be allowed in the house. We dont have any kids so im not too worried about them ruining any training. Got to be honest i do not need a FTCH standard dog just a well trained one i am happy to take on a shoot with me, as you say I am one of those who does not want a top dog. As much as i can i have an eye on her and the day time stuff is going okay at the moment the problem i have is this night time crate as my collie was clean all night and it worked well with him, at night time i do set an alarm to go down every 4 or 5 hours but previous 2 nights she hasnt even made 3. So new alarm every 3 hours. Would it be worth me sleeping downstairs on the sofa a few nights so catch her as soon as she wakes up? or will that not help as she will get used to me being downstairs. I know people thinking I am being a big softy its more the fact i dont like cleaning poo and wee up at 4 in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Live with it! Puppies like adult babies need time to get control of thier bowels and bladder. Punish it at your peril, its not about undestanding its about physical ability. Sleeping with the pup will only create other issues, like winging and sepparation issues. Make sure its been outside and had a good run around before bed and not fed too close to bedtime, then as you wake staight downstairs before it has time to hear you and stir and straight out the door with it is the only help i can offer up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Not punishing her at all for it I know its not her fault, i just wanted to make sure i was doing the right thing by cleaning her up changing the blanket and putting her back in for the rest of the night if it does happen. I appreciate all the suggestions and they all match up with what i am doing which is good. It seems stange that she is fine when in crate with the collie for 6-7 hours the first two nights and cant last 3 hours on her own, i didnt know if she would get anxiety from being in the crate on her own and cause problems in the future or am i thinking far too much into this i think maybe i was lucky with my collie. Edited December 28, 2011 by ferguson_tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_0787 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 How is your crate set up? I always went with small plastic bed with couple of old towels inside then just enough room between the bed and the door of the crate for the pup to stand up and turn around. Which should all be covered in newspaper. Then you just have to pull out the old paper when the inevitable happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I got a crate with a cardboard part to make it smaller, she has one waterproof mat cushion thing and a blanket over the whole area. Thanks for the advice on the newspaper that makes a lot of sense i will try and sort out a bed areas for her tonight as that will help a lot and make it easier to put her back in after she has an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Then you just have to pull out the old paper when the inevitable happens. The "inevitable" isn't inevitable and doesn't have to happen, but if you put paper (or a blanket) in a crate, it will. On top of that, a pup might eat a blanket and cause a blockage or screw up its digestive and eliminating systems something fierce. Might want to heed Kent's comments above. And if you don't heed or didn't read them closely enough, let me expand on them: You need to downsize the crate with a partition so the pup will have nowhere to do its business except outside - where you will be taking it on a regular schedule. Yes, sorry to break it to you gently, but this is on you. And you also need to understand "the rules of elimination:" What goes in must come out. No dog - no puppy - wants to urinate or defecate where it lives, sleeps and where it ought to be eating. If you time it with meals, you should be taking the pup out of the crate and outside to eliminate no longer than four hours after it's eaten or drank - every time it eats or drinks. You do this for a couple of weeks as the pups bladder and bowels grow and get more capacious. Then you stretch it to six hours. Then, by six months old, to eight. I repeat,puppies do not want to eliminate where they live, sleep and eat. If it happens, and continues to happen, it's on you. Not inevitably or not inevitable on the dog, but on you for failing to keep to a schedule. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Cheers MG, I do have a partition but may need to bring it in even smaller. She is regularly going outside at least once an hour during the day but i think it may be my timing that is wrong, feeding a bit too late and leaving the water down because of the other dog i have. I will try out the suggestions and report back tomorrow. once again thanks everyone, she is my second pup in 12 months as the first was so easy a matter of days till fully house trained i just wanted to make sure i werent missing something, by sound of it i have at thats my timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larp Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 hi tom dont feed after 5pm make sure she has a good empty out last thing at night keep both dogs close by at nights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Easiest and simpleist way is the following 1) One hour before bed time take up water 2) Make sure shes been before bed 3) Take her out every 3 gours tgrough the night and reduce over the next couple of weeks, wake her if she is asleep Reference the.anxiety place an old jumper worn by you in the crate, ensure the crate is not too big, feed all meals in the crate, give her an hour in the ceare or as you need through out the day( this will also help if you pkan on kenneling her in the future so she is used to seeing and hearing you but not being with you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 for the first couple of weeks i set my alarm on my phone for every two hours and let him out through out the night. best tip i was given was when cleaning out a crate just use water, the cleaning sprays etc contain amonia which just encourages them to urinate again. persevere and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 She is regularly going outside at least once an hour during the day but i think it may be my timing that is wrong, feeding a bit too late and leaving the water down because of the other dog i have. ...i just wanted to make sure i werent missing something, by sound of it i have at thats my timing. Tom, folk have given you good advice and you seem keen on taking it. Things will work out, you bet - and you got it spot-on above: It's all in the timing. It's always fun to take a gundog pup out on the hour just for the sake of getting it out and about - but if you take her out first thing of morning, then feed and water her, and put her away in the crate for the next 3-4 hours before taking her out again, you're giving the pup (and yourself) a schedule. And you're also letting the pup learn to "hold it" in her crate (which she doesn't want to soil in the first place) with the assurance she will get to go out and eliminate when nature calls. You'll want to regulate her water intake as advised in the evenings and feed on a regular schedule as well. I'm sure you're aware of this but, when a pup suddenly pops into your lap, there's a tendency just to enjoy the pup and let the routine slide. And then you get the soiled crate and a little despair from the owner - but trust me, it's going to be fine as you get into that routine and the pup builds her housetraining "capabilities." MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 The size of the crate has alot to do with it as has been said and getting in a routine, very good advise given above stick with it and good luck buddy :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Well many thanks for the advice everyone we had a clean night so just got to carry on with the correct timings of food and hopefully all will be good. I made the crate a lot smaller as suggested and i was woken this morning with her crying to get out rather than pooing then crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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