Wharf Rat Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 anaemic in what? speed? red-dot is a perfect for everyday clay shooting shell. if used correctly, ic can yield awsome performance. get some longshot and really vaporise the clays. More of a pop than a bang. The extra grain made a hell of a (perceived!) difference. Tempted to try the Longshot in the 12, in the 20g it has been pretty stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 More of a pop than a bang. The extra grain made a hell of a (perceived!) difference. Tempted to try the Longshot in the 12, in the 20g it has been pretty stunning. yeah, as duke said it is stunning load, but expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke5339 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 with the 24 grain reddot with 30g of lead. sure makes the groundsman look worried. Not a bad load but longshot is in a different league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 with the 24 grain reddot with 30g of lead. sure makes the groundsman look worried. Not a bad load but longshot is in a different league. longshot is in a different solar system in comparison. especially in that application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke5339 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 If you are after dramatic, then try 3 Dram of black powder with 30g lead. not sure if i hit the clay could not see a dam thing lol The lads on my weekend clay shoot thought i had blown up :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) with the 24 grain reddot with 30g of lead. sure makes the groundsman look worried. Not a bad load but longshot is in a different league. Tried 22gr. Red Dot with 30g and 32g today - plenty enough through a side by side. 24gr must be pokey to say the least! Edited September 21, 2012 by Wharf Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 looking at the reddot data that 24grains looks like its a hot load. i plead and encourage anyone to please varify the loading information from a reputable source. however looking around for some speedy data, check this little load out. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/load01-17-11.htm HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75” PRIMER: FIO616 PROPELLANT: ALLIANT REDDOT 25.0 Grains WAD: SUPER SPARK SHOT: 24 grams (370 gr.) #6 Nickel Plated shot BUFFER: none FOLD CRIMP: 6-point Result: PSI 11000 FPS 1555 never ever forget that this loads are SAAMI specs. apart from that this load should turn more than a few heads, even loading with a #6 should break a few clay pigeons and real ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke5339 Posted September 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 L0AD# 90717-1032 (5/8 Lead) HULL: FIOCCHI 20ga 2.75” PRIMER: FIO616 PROPELLANT: HODGDON UNIVERSAL CLAYS 26.0 Grains WAD: NC20 over the powder + BW20 wad SHOT: 5/8 oz. (273 gr.) Mix of #7 & #6 Nickel Plated shot BUFFER: none FOLD CRIMP: 6-point Result: PSI 11400 FPS 1720 Now that is a fast load. Wonder if it can be achieved in 12g? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 yep, that speed can be achieved in 12gauge, but look for the light shot charges. 5/8oz shot is just about 18grams. normal loads are not published beyond 1500fps. so look for special data such as ballistic products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke5339 Posted September 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 why are they using Nickel Plated shot, is it to reduce deformation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 yep supposedly, it reduces friction between the shot upon firing setback. well thats the theory. although hard / high antimony lead would be as good. its like the equivalent of diamond shot etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke5339 Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Think I will give them a go. Watch this space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 looking at the reddot data that 24grains looks like its a hot load. i plead and encourage anyone to please varify the loading information from a reputable source. however looking around for some speedy data, check this little load out. http://www.ballistic...oad01-17-11.htm HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75” PRIMER: FIO616 PROPELLANT: ALLIANT REDDOT 25.0 Grains WAD: SUPER SPARK SHOT: 24 grams (370 gr.) #6 Nickel Plated shot BUFFER: none FOLD CRIMP: 6-point Result: PSI 11000 FPS 1555 never ever forget that this loads are SAAMI specs. apart from that this load should turn more than a few heads, even loading with a #6 should break a few clay pigeons and real ones. Would you try using an NC card and fibre wad instead of the Super Spark? Should lower pressure according to your formula, or is the start pressure just too high to mess with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 well these are saami specs so the pressure for 12gauge is 11,500psi where cip has a limit of 10500psi or 740bar / with 70mm chambers. it depends what your gun is proofed to? i`m sure there is nothing wrong with saami specs, but just dont run them in an older gun. if you have a modern gun, proofed for high performance cartridges such as HP steel, then that is in exceeds the saami spec so would be safe to do so. what chamber size you got? and is it steel proofed? the data there is published, and any deviation from this will result in different ballistics. if you were to replace the wad with fibre, then the load will be different. all i can say is stick to the data. (i`m covering my own ****) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Does any one use a calibrated chrono? because Cookoff 013 is always on about confirmed recipies yet all the recipies I have tried never meet the published speed and yes my chrono has been cailbrated never found a factory shell to do what it says on the box Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Does any one use a calibrated chrono? because Cookoff 013 is always on about confirmed recipies yet all the recipies I have tried never meet the published speed and yes my chrono has been cailbrated never found a factory shell to do what it says on the box Deershooter I agree all factory shells seem to be well under the stated velocities using my Chony F1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Does any one use a calibrated chrono? because Cookoff 013 is always on about confirmed recipies yet all the recipies I have tried never meet the published speed and yes my chrono has been cailbrated never found a factory shell to do what it says on the box Deershooter most shotshell recipes are from america and they have different ways of mesuring shotspeeds. UK use 2.5m from muzzel and its calculated back and rounded off for even numbers. never forget that the speeds and pressures quoted are an average / maximum for a given recipe. 10 shells are used for a full chrono / pressure check, then from this the data averages or upper levels are recorded. even though there may be just one shell poking out the dataset. i`m also lead to believe a single shell is acclimatised to a warm temp and fired, thats where one of the highest fps i`ve recorded. that may explain some issues, here. how a shell manufacturer interpretates the data is there problem. how they fudge the numbers is there problem too. i`m more enclined to believe US data more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) looking at the reddot data that 24grains looks like its a hot load. i plead and encourage anyone to please varify the loading information from a reputable source. however looking around for some speedy data, check this little load out. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/load01-17-11.htm HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75” PRIMER: FIO616 PROPELLANT: ALLIANT REDDOT 25.0 Grains WAD: SUPER SPARK SHOT: 24 grams (370 gr.) #6 Nickel Plated shot BUFFER: none FOLD CRIMP: 6-point Result: PSI 11000 FPS 1555 never ever forget that this loads are SAAMI specs. apart from that this load should turn more than a few heads, even loading with a #6 should break a few clay pigeons and real ones. Found a BP recipe today reads: Cheddite primer, 19 gr Red Dot, 3 x .17" card wad, 24g lead, 11400 psi, 1380 fps Its well above CIP of 10500 psi and a whole SIX grains lighter than the one given above. Would a normal soft fibre filler wad and 4mm NC reduce pressure? I ask as 21gr RD for 1oz loads is VERY soft with that wad arrangement. Edited September 29, 2012 by Wharf Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke5339 Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I gave this load a go with very good results on the long distance clays 70mm carts picked up from my clay ground Cx2000 primer 4mm nitro card Fibre wad 24 Grain reddot 28g no7 lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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