Reece Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Very good point indeed, looking from a different perspective as your self and quite enjoying a bit of discussion. I offer this up to the table. I would assume and by my observations, Cats generally predate gardens and within say 100m of there surrounding area. I shoot a lot and rarley do I see a Cat actively hunting in the fields. With the exception of a few instances i would expect cats to predate the more common of our songbirds of whom are in little danger of vanishing. Blackbirds, Blue tits etc. Most of dwindling song bird numbers and studys take into account the rapidly vanishing Tree sparrows, Corn Buntings amongest other farmaland and arable species, Thus concluding that modern day farming techqniques are largely to blame for loss of habitat feeding and breeding areas. House sparrows suffered a similar fate due to modern building and renovation of houses, Starling numbers are still up for disscusion. karpman I'm not going to deny that intensive farming is a problem for wildlife, but the intensification of farming which produced modern day farming happened a few decades ago. It is not getting any worse, and in some places, it is ever so slightly in reverse. Intensive farming and habitat loss is a major threat, but it does not fully explain the current situation. Also, predation tends to affect the vulnerable species the most. If there are 20 blackbirds in a local area, and 4 are taken by cats, it isn't much of a problem. In you have only 4 song thrushes, and those 4 get taken by cats, then that's an entire site's song thrush population gone. With threatened species such as thrushes, it does not matter much if only a few are taken, because every one is precious. If you get what I mean. With things such as habitat loss getting most of the blame, cats are often overlooked. This is probably the only case where I will ever agree with Chris Packham. He recently came out and said that pets such as cats should be kept under better control by their owners, to protect vulnerable wildlife. http://www.dailymail...nvironment.html Edited August 29, 2012 by Reece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 If its ok to allow cats to roam and hunt at will why cant the RSPB follow suite and initiate a breeding/release program for the European Eagle Owl-I,ve heard that they love cats so all should be well in the garden?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Mr packham istalking mostly about when cats go feral, I guess just a scapegoat for his sometimes controversial views! Doubt he thought he would get a link from a hunting sight lol. Agree with what your saying in part that one song thrush killed by a cat is one to many. There's a bigger picture and bigger fish to fry on the demise unfortunately, you rind them in gardens because there habitat is running low and there getting wasted on the continent, cats ate not particularly helping matters but there not the worst evil at work here. And can you honestly say muzzling cats would cause a turn around in thrush populations. I would imagine nearly as many thrush are killed by glass Windows as they are cats should we smash our Windows too lol. Just for the record, I don't have a cat don't particularly like em much. I do admire there nature and abilities to survive. If I chucked my lurcher out the door and left him to it he would be dead in an hour guaranteed lol. As for chucking eagle owls into the environment, introducing any new species into a Eco system can and does have devastating results. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I have no doubt you are right about modern building practise/ renovation and modern farming practises ,when i was a lad growing up on a farm there were lots of small farms and small holding in my village where as there are now just two big farms, and now farmers yards and barns are ultra clean with fitting doors and roofs that are a single thickness so no where for them nest so its not a place for much wildlife anymore and whos to blame for this I'm sure is food for another thread ! Lol will let you start that thread when this one fizzles out, having a blast here. Cheers Karpman P.s don't particularly think anything about you one way or other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Mr packham istalking mostly about when cats go feral, I guess just a scapegoat for his sometimes controversial views! Doubt he thought he would get a link from a hunting sight lol. Agree with what your saying in part that one song thrush killed by a cat is one to many. There's a bigger picture and bigger fish to fry on the demise unfortunately, you rind them in gardens because there habitat is running low and there getting wasted on the continent, cats ate not particularly helping matters but there not the worst evil at work here. And can you honestly say muzzling cats would cause a turn around in thrush populations. I would imagine nearly as many thrush are killed by glass Windows as they are cats should we smash our Windows too lol. Just for the record, I don't have a cat don't particularly like em much. I do admire there nature and abilities to survive. If I chucked my lurcher out the door and left him to it he would be dead in an hour guaranteed lol. As for chucking eagle owls into the environment, introducing any new species into a Eco system can and does have devastating results. Karpman I am against muzzling cats because it does seem like a ridiculous idea. But I do think that cats should be controlled by their owners to the same extent that dogs are. Cats have some weird "right to roam" which, as far as I can see, is completely unjustified. Birds are found in gardens because the gardens have replaced their farmland habitat. But looked after properly, garden can be a good habitat. Interesting fact, in some countries, such as Australia and America, people don't let cats out because of large snakes which will kill a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I am against muzzling cats because it does seem like a ridiculous idea. But I do think that cats should be controlled by their owners to the same extent that dogs are. Cats have some weird "right to roam" which, as far as I can see, is completely unjustified. Birds are found in gardens because the gardens have replaced their farmland habitat. But looked after properly, garden can be a good habitat. Interesting fact, in some countries, such as Australia and America, people don't let cats out because of large snakes which will kill a cat. Yeah indeed mate, plenty of folks keep a healthy bird population including ground feeding birds and have a semi free roaming cat, my old girl being one of em. As for large snakes in America there causing all sorts of problems to thec local bird population, mainly wading birds I believe. A problem that isn't likely to go away anytime in the near future. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 ...It may be anecdotal evidence but that is still evidence, and when there is a lot of it, it is evidence that cannot be ignored. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence I'm still waiting for a link to the 55 million figure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 So… Bringing everything together; Domestic cats are well fed at home so they don’t bother with ratting or mouseing. Domestic cats are well fed at home so they do have the energy to kill songbrids. Domestic cats don’t kill birds, they eat cheezeburgers. Once habitat destruction (and windows) has reduced the local songbird population down from 100 to just 4 remaining birds, we blame the cats when they kill the last 4. Cats are kept in houses in a country where there are already a huge number of active ground predators. Nobody likes cat poo. But we don’t like fox poo, bird poo, or hedgehog **** either. (or dog poo from irresponsible dog owners either) There’s still no clear definition of a problem, or a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 So… Bringing everything together; Domestic cats are well fed at home so they don’t bother with ratting or mouseing. Domestic cats are well fed at home so they do have the energy to kill songbrids. Domestic cats don’t kill birds, they eat cheezeburgers. Once habitat destruction (and windows) has reduced the local songbird population down from 100 to just 4 remaining birds, we blame the cats when they kill the last 4. Cats are kept in houses in a country where there are already a huge number of active ground predators. Nobody likes cat poo. But we don’t like fox poo, bird poo, or hedgehog **** either. (or dog poo from irresponsible dog owners either) There’s still no clear definition of a problem, or a solution. Lol indeed, was a fun 5 pages getting to your conclusions.... Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) http://en.wikipedia....cdotal_evidence I'm still waiting for a link to the 55 million figure.... Can't find the exact same figure, but I did find this: "That impact has been much discussed in conservation circles over the past decade, certainly since a report published by the Mammal Society in 2003 concluded that British cats had taken an estimated 92 million prey items over a five-month period. When the researchers factored in kills that had not been ‘returned’ (brought back to the cat’s owner), it was extrapolated that the overall tally could be as high as 275 million individual animals every year." For more information, click here. So… Bringing everything together; Domestic cats are well fed at home so they don’t bother with ratting or mouseing. Domestic cats are well fed at home so they do have the energy to kill songbrids. Domestic cats don’t kill birds, they eat cheezeburgers. Once habitat destruction (and windows) has reduced the local songbird population down from 100 to just 4 remaining birds, we blame the cats when they kill the last 4. Cats are kept in houses in a country where there are already a huge number of active ground predators. Nobody likes cat poo. But we don’t like fox poo, bird poo, or hedgehog **** either. (or dog poo from irresponsible dog owners either) There’s still no clear definition of a problem, or a solution. Cats can affect all species, but the point I made was that it affects the vulnerable species most. Cats are a bigger problem than other animals because cats dig up gardens to use as a toilet, and do damage to the garden in the process. The problems: Cats can kill wildlife, such as birds and dormice. Cats can do damage to gardens. If it was dogs doing this, it would not be accepted. Why should cats be any different? The solutions: The same laws that apply to other pets, such as dogs, should apply to cats, and the cat's "right to roam" should be removed. Edited August 30, 2012 by Reece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Can't find the exact same figure, but I did find this: "That impact has been much discussed in conservation circles over the past decade, certainly since a report published by the Mammal Society in 2003 concluded that British cats had taken an estimated 92 million prey items over a five-month period. When the researchers factored in kills that had not been ‘returned’ (brought back to the cat’s owner), it was extrapolated that the overall tally could be as high as 275 million individual animals every year." For more information, click here. Cats can affect all species, but the point I made was that it affects the vulnerable species most. Cats are a bigger problem than other animals because cats dig up gardens to use as a toilet, and do damage to the garden in the process. The problems: Cats can kill wildlife, such as birds and dormice. Cats can do damage to gardens. If it was dogs doing this, it would not be accepted. Why should cats be any different? The solutions: The same laws that apply to other pets, such as dogs, should apply to cats, and the cat's "right to roam" should be removed. HEAR ,HEAR, the courts decision is final HA ,HA Remove there right to roam HA, HA I'd love to see it but it would never happen ATB Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 The same laws that apply to other pets, such as dogs, should apply to cats, and the cat's "right to roam" should be removed. If the cats right to roam was revoked how would you police this? If a cat was loose in the street without a collar how would it be dealt with? If we assume that all cats loose in the street were feral cats how would you deal with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 How about we start with a nation wide micro chipping for cat so that they can be idendified then maybe after a certain date any after found roaming the streets could caught and neutered at least that way they wont breed so it hopfully would'nt take to many years to bring the problem under control, All I know is doing nothing is unacceptable ! this really seems to be the age of burying heads in the sand and leaving this to another generation and what if the next generation does nothing I for one would rather leave this knowing i'd done some thing than nothing at all.! And why folks think that my question has more to be with cat digging in my garden heaven only knows I for one could give a dit where they go ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 And who would fund such a mammoth task, don't you pay enough tax already :o Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 And who would fund such a mammoth task, don't you pay enough tax already :o Karpman Maybe folks could opt out if they did'nt feel their wildlife is of no importance to them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I suppose the chipping could be paid for by the cat owners. Although that’s moving close to the old dog licencing laws which were scrapped as they only caused hassle for law abiding owners but were ignored by a certain section of society. However, I don’t know who would pay for the capture of strays or loose cats. I also think that a cat would be a lot harder to catch than a stray dog. Dogs generally aren’t good at surviving on their own in an urban environment, whereas cats are known to be quite good at finding their own food and making a home under a shed or in an overgrown garden. If a cat was caught, what’s the point in neutering/spaying it and then releasing it? Why not just deal with it like a stray dog – rehome or destroy it? Clearly this is a subject that you feel strongly about. That’s great. But, personally, I don’t see it as a big problem that I’m leaving for the next generation. I think cats are just fine the way they are. As for songbrids – there’s loads of them out in the countryside. There’s not many in the suburbs or urban areas – that’s not really the cats fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I hate to say it but I live in the country and believe me in this part of norfolk the bird population has taken a noise dive something terible , time was that you could sit in the garden a hear birds all the day long but not now. now I I'm saying thats just down to cats but they are a big problem none the less. And besides which I still stand by what I've already said the fact cat owner should be more responsible for their animals.! Edited August 30, 2012 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I hate to say it but I live in the country and believe me in this part of norfolk the bird population has taken a noise dive something terible , time was that you could sit in the garden a hear birds all the day long but not now. now I I'm saying thats just down to cats but they are a big problem none the less. And besides which I still stand by what I've already said the fact cat owner should be more responsible for their animals.! Dead right, resposible dog owners get there animals chipped, Cat owners should be restricted just like dog owners are , if you want a cat get it chipped , build it a run for outside and if it needs to go out stick it on a lead or put it in the run just like dog owners do ( HAVE TO DO BY LAW) they shouldnt be allowed to roam free and **** every where, AWWWWW but its a cat , who cares it can be trained from a kitten to get used to a lead, HA HA HA HA LMAO I love this thread , ATB Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I wonder if anyone else has noticed how ridiculous the suggestions in this thread have become. They'll be suggestions of feline nappies and protective force-fields around them before long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Sorry everyone its just the rambling of old **** as my good lady says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I wonder if anyone else has noticed how ridiculous the suggestions in this thread have become. They'll be suggestions of feline nappies and protective force-fields around them before long... Its called freedom of speach ! and freedom of thought ! its what separates us from the animals Edited August 30, 2012 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I wonder if anyone else has noticed how ridiculous the suggestions in this thread have become. They'll be suggestions of feline nappies and protective force-fields around them before long... What do you mean old bean? This is a serious thread that has never been done before HA HA HA still lmao atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 What do you mean old bean? This is a serious thread that has never been done before HA HA HA still lmao atb Flynny You been at the peace pipe again dude. Try opening a window let the fumes out lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 What do you mean old bean? This is a serious thread that has never been done before HA HA HA still lmao atb Flynny I, m deadly serious i aint PUSSY FOOTING AROUND, but let me PAWS for thought on the topic for a moment ha ha, still lmao I'll get my coat , can some one start the car!!!!!!!! ATB flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I hate to say it but I live in the country and believe me in this part of norfolk the bird population has taken a noise dive something terible , time was that you could sit in the garden a hear birds all the day long but not now. now I I'm saying thats just down to cats but they are a big problem none the less. And besides which I still stand by what I've already said the fact cat owner should be more responsible for their animals.! Dam if things are rough in Norfolk must be pretty **** in leicestershire lol. You live in a county known for its birds, I mean how many other counties can you drive round and see cranes feeding in the field. Mass land falls of buntings and thrushes lol. I enjoy a trip out me mates place at walcote think its called. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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