closed licensce shooting

[bedwards1966]

I've been thinking a lot about conditions like this of late.

 

If he went and shot on the land (with permission) with his FAC conditioned as it currently stands what offence does he commit?

 

J.

 

I would think that, assuming he has the common wording relating to shooting only on land deemed suitable blah blah, he would be breaching his conditions if the land is not passed, if his certificate only permits him to shoot on cleared land. But he could have wording which does not include the word 'only', in which case I can't see what offence he'd be committing either.

 

 

Ok, so the offence is that of failing to comply with a condition subject to which a firearm certificate is held - sec.1(2) of the Firearms Act 1968.

 

If a condition reads;

 

The .243 rifle and ammunition shall be used to shoot Fox at Home Farm, Little Piddle, Summershire and for zeroing on ranges.

 

and you are shooting on a different farm (where you were shooting with permission) how have you breached the condition? The condition doesn't say that you can't shoot anywhere else just that you must (because is uses the word 'shall') shoot on Home Farm.

 

J.

 

A very interesting point, I too am thinking that it's not actually limiting you to only shooting at that mentioned place. It's obvious that's what the police have in mind, but not what they've written on the certificate. Thinking about it, I can't see any way you could be breaching the conditions either.

 

With that said, I'd want to confirm this with a good lawyer before taking it to court, but it does appear fairly clear.

 

He wouldn't breach the condition because it doesn't say 'shall only'. As long as you do actually shoot at Home Farm then you have complied with the condition, surely?

 

The word 'shall' means that you must do it. So, you must shoot on that land. It doesn't say you can't shoot elsewhere.

 

J.

 

I think he's right - the words are plain English.

 

I didn't know they did a pedantic ******* benefit these days?

 

Well, while he may irritate a few people on here (and I haven't always seen eye to eye with him), I can't recall a time he's been wrong on the law - merely differences in opinion. While being pedantic can be a pain at times, it's sometimes a good thing, especially with the wording on a certificate, to fully understand what is being said.

The way he (and myself) are reading it, some certificate are closed, with certain quarry species listed, but without using words such as 'only', they are in fact open, almost unlimited certificates.

Don't you think that's worth looking into?

 

 

CharlieT, I do believe that, while not that common, some certificates do still name a certain piece of land/farm.

[shaun4860]

JonathanL

 

My cert says "shall be used for shooting vermin and for zeroing on ranges or land which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

 

That is an open certificate.

 

If he goes away from piddle farm and shoots elsewhere I hope he has very deep pockets for his appeal because his cert states that "shall be used at piddle farm" NOT " land which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

 

Whereas it doesnt say ONLY at piddle farm, 99.9% of the shooting fraternity knows thats what it means,

 

To give a newbie your version of events is dangerous,

 

You know its right but for some reason are intent in trying to twist it to suit his needs

 

[al4x]

It is indeed complete rubbish Shaun

 

my only slight wondering is whether the extra conditions aren't actually lawful hence the word must being dropped. You'd never take a chance on it but you have to wonder why its changed as soon as it goes from conditions to extra conditions.

[shaun4860]

al4x

 

when I first got my cert, it was a closed one with the wording of where the chief constable deems the land suitable or words to that effect.

 

Back to the original question,

 

If the guy with the .243 were to go on his mates farm, providing the land had been cleared for that calibre then there wouldnt be a problem.

 

I used to do it on friends land where the calibre had been passed

 

[bedwards1966]

JonathanL

 

My cert says "shall be used for shooting vermin and for zeroing on ranges or land which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

 

That is an open certificate.

 

If he goes away from piddle farm and shoots elsewhere I hope he has very deep pockets for his appeal because his cert states that "shall be used at piddle farm" NOT " land which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

 

Whereas it doesnt say ONLY at piddle farm, 99.9% of the shooting fraternity knows thats what it means,

 

To give a newbie your version of events is dangerous,

 

You know its right but for some reason are intent in trying to twist it to suit his needs

 

 

Yes, we know exactly what the police intend when they write that. But, if they make a mistake with the wording, then that's their problem. What they want doesn't change what it says - or doesn't say.