David BASC Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) None the less, policy is set by the party, and getting the party to agree a policy not to ban or restrict lead further is important. The WWT et al have no managed the opposite after all despite all their efforts. Time will, of course, tell what impact if any the press coverage will have and we will certainly be keeping a close eye on the tabloids, and broadsheets but I will be amazed if it makes front page news for example, nor is it likely to be a food story that runs and runs like BSE and beef on the bone or salmonella in eggs. David Edited October 9, 2012 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 David, If you watch the interview with Chris Perrins he says that if you buy Mallard today 70% will have been shot with Lead. That is not a Fact, that is a blatant lie. I know a few Gamedealers who supply supermarkets and restaurants and I can assure you that they have traceability and will not buy wildfowl shot with lead and also because of the paperwork they produce, should I try something illegal they will inform the authorities. Perhaps BASC should talk to Will Oakley and get a few useful facts about Game dealing. It is interesting to note that you agree that the case for banning lead shot is based on flawed science, and yet BASC do not actually denounce these claims, in fact I think many shooting men and wildfowlers think that BASC are not vociferous enough in their condemnation of these scare mongerers. Mark my words a Lead ban is far nearer than many of you even dare to think, and then we WILL hear the howls of protest. Of course by that time many will also be enjoying retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) You are right in saying 70% of the duck in the country have not been shot with lead , but what is fact is that 70% of the duck bought at game dealers have been shot with lead. This comes from a DEFRA survey last year. Very few wildfowlers sell their bag and the vast majority of wild duck in a game dealers window have been shot on game shoots. Should we realy worry if a lead ban is just around the corner. I use steel for a lot of my shooting ( game , pigeons and wildfowl ) and up to 40 yards it does the job just as well as lead and by using a suitable gun\load that range can be extended another 10 yards. The remainder of the shooting community is going to have to undergo the change wildfowlers did a decade ago, buy new guns and learn the different style of shooting needed to shoot steel. Resist and public will come out strongly against shooting and our sport will be at high risk. Edited October 9, 2012 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 You are right in saying 70% of the duck in the country have not been shot with lead , but what is fact is that 70% of the duck bought at game dealers have been shot with lead. This comes from a DEFRA survey last year. Very few wildfowlers sell their bag and the vast majority of wild duck in a game dealers window have been shot on game shoots. The DEFRA survey you refer to was carried out by WWT/BASC. The survey was inherently flawed, not least by the admission from WWT that they couldn't prove the provenance of the birds sourced. At the time of the survey lead shot was still legal to shoot wildfowl in Scotland and Ireland. The report was riddled with guesswork and assumptions. Hardly surprising when you consider WWT wanted £125,000 to carry out a 'thorough and robust' study, they actually got £63,000. It stands to reason then that the study was neither thorough or robust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think the point is being missed that Chris Perrins said that 70% of Mallard that you buy today has been shot with Lead, he also said 'I want Lead banned immediately'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 sure ime going to be called defeatist for this post,but just look at it this way.within the last 30 years or so,lead has been removed from toy soldiers,paint.pencils,petrol.water pipes etc.the fact that we haven't all died like flies matters not a jot.Lead is toxic FACT.And because of that it will be banned sooner or later,if we keep banging on about steel being inferior,leads to too many cripples,wounded this wounded that,one of two things will happen,we will all be made to shoot shells @ £1 a bang or live quarry shooting will be a thing of the past.And before anyone asks,yes i am a coastal fowler and Vice-chairman of my club with 30 years live quarry shooting behind me.Lets start to divert some of our organisations budgets they are now using to oppose a lead ban on research and development on effective, COST EFFECTIVE alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 what are the alternates to a complete lead ban? are we to have a game warden system as in the usa, to have on the spot fines? because i wouldnt want any wwt sponserd game warden or rspb regulated. because that would be a disaster. they`d introduce there own interpretation. even i, cant list all the nontoxic types regestered as nontoxic off the top of my head. to have some un educated anti shooting campaigner try and convince me my ammunition is illegal? there is nothing to stop them fudging the numbers to acertain greater problems, and justify an even bigger ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The DEFRA survey you refer to was carried out by WWT/BASC. The survey was inherently flawed, not least by the admission from WWT that they couldn't prove the provenance of the birds sourced. At the time of the survey lead shot was still legal to shoot wildfowl in Scotland and Ireland. The report was riddled with guesswork and assumptions. Hardly surprising when you consider WWT wanted £125,000 to carry out a 'thorough and robust' study, they actually got £63,000. It stands to reason then that the study was neither thorough or robust. WWT did not get all of the £63K, some of it ended up in the bank of BASC for their work on the Cromie report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 sure ime going to be called defeatist for this post,but just look at it this way.within the last 30 years or so,lead has been removed from toy soldiers,paint.pencils,petrol.water pipes etc.the fact that we haven't all died like flies matters not a jot.Lead is toxic FACT.And because of that it will be banned sooner or later,if we keep banging on about steel being inferior,leads to too many cripples,wounded this wounded that,one of two things will happen,we will all be made to shoot shells @ £1 a bang or live quarry shooting will be a thing of the past.And before anyone asks,yes i am a coastal fowler and Vice-chairman of my club with 30 years live quarry shooting behind me.Lets start to divert some of our organisations budgets they are now using to oppose a lead ban on research and development on effective, COST EFFECTIVE alternatives. One of my customers workers for Themes Water and he tells me that 70% of homes in the Theme Velley area have lead pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yes I am sure they do, and you will find many, if not almost all water company areas have lead pipes. If you look on their web sites you will also see information about the national lead pipe replacement scheme. Only high risk areas are being replaced. As I have said before the fact is that when water goes through a lead pipe it very quickly forms a film of typically inorganic salts on the inside of the pipe which creates a barrier between it and the water. Even so, if you look on the water company web site there is further guidance on safe use. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankbrickbats Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Lets get things into perspective, this attack on lead shot is the smoke screen to deprive us of our shooting in total, it will make older guns unusable through steel shot being imposed, it will make the cost of amunition go through the roof to a point where we ordinary blokes cannot afford it, I used to cough a bit at buying 2 3/4" mag no4s lead at 28 pence each a few years back, now I buy none- toxic shot at close to 1 1/2 quid a shot and and I am to frightened to use them untill I have forgotten how much they cost. The report on Swan depicted on the xray did not identify where the bird came from and what other items are contained within the crop, they stated 'some ' shot was lead what was the other type? and what percentage, it is possible to identify the source of the lead shot through phorensic testing and data bases. Is it possible these birdies are devious enough to seed the feeding areas to get the results they want. As others have stated there is lead shot in the mud and ground that has been there for a couple of hundred years, over my sixty years being out in the field, wetland and recreational water areas I have never sean a duck , goose or swan behave as the mallard seen on the report, although I have seen birds with feather distortions due to being over fed on bread by kind bird lovers. I think its time to stop as the blood preasure is rising. Good shooting to all who are interested and damn to hell those who arn't Rgards Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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