Gibbybox Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi all, I'm in the process of filling out a co-terminous application so I can use my old man's guns on the farm without his supervision. I have came across a few uncertainties when completing the form, can you help out? 1. Both forms ask for details of guns and ammunition in my possession, as they are stored in the house where both my Dad and I live should I list them or not as they don't actually belong to me? 2. Question 19 of the FAC asks for details of each firearm I wish to purchase, I intend to list the guns my Dad already owns here. They are a CZ 452 .22lr rifle and a .243 rifle. For the reason is it acceptable to put 'rabbit vermin control to protect farm crops' for the .22 and 'fox vermin control to protect young animals' for the .243? The box is fairly small and I'm not sure how to word the reason. The location of both will be on our farm which is already passed for both calibres so that is not a problem. 3. Should I attach a letter from my Dad stating that he gives me permission to shoot on his land? Will there be any conflict of interest with this as he is a relative? 4. I have two possible candidates for referees in mind. One man is a prison officer who I have played in a band with for more than 5 years and the other is a SGC holder who works on the farm on occasions and is an offshore diver, I have known him for more than 7 years. Do you think they will be acceptable referees? 5. Finally, I was thinking of asking for 500 .22 rounds to buy, 600 to hold and 100 .243 to buy, 200 to hold. Do you think this is about right for starting out? Thanks for your time, I look forward to the response! Cheers, Gibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 TBH all sounds good. 1. You have none in your possession! 2. Yes again. 'Vermin' for the .22 and 'Fox and vermin' for the .243 simple. If your father has moderators (silencers) then make you you ask for slots for them too. 3. Yes you should, just a very simple explanation that he gives permission for you to share his guns and have them listed on both certificates. 4. Referees sound fine. 5. The ammo sounds sensible. If you are sharing storage with your father then I suggest that you put whatever ammo allowance he has! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Hi. just done mine so its fresh. If you have a certficate Shotgun and or FAC, all the guns you are entitled and allowed to own will be shown on those certs and you will be responsible personally for their security and the seperate security of ammunition. If you have neither cert at the moment or one, you need to list on your application the guns you would like to use and I suggest advise they are to be shared between you and your dad and where they will be kept - his cabinet or yours. To provide your good reason for sharing ownership with your dad simply put as you suggest - if you dont have deer on the farm you'll struggle with the justification for the .243 and I suggest, since the .22 will be for 'Vermin' you try the .243 for fox - you have a mentor already (dad) and if you have deer just put deer and fox. As for the land just enclose a starndard permission letter for that and a seperate letter from your dad agreeing to you having his guns on your certificate but ensure you add which of you will be responsible for the security of which firearm. Being a relative isnt a problem since its 'your' land too. The referees you suggest are fine - more than 2 years and responsible - your FEO will confirm these at you interview so if one isnt acceptable have another possibility in reserve. With respect to the ammo - that doesnt sound too bad to me but your dads allowance will affect it potentially so be prepared at the interview to cut the .22 slightly. The .243 seems very reasonable. Incidentally, if they dont allow you to use the .243 (I cant imagine why not) then ask for your own .223 for fox - that might change the approach for them as it would be 'another gun' which they always try to avoid. I dont see a problem with any of what you have suggested and your FEO will go through it with you at your interview - he will probably ask for your dad to be ther but no problems I can see -- good luck Kes Edited October 23, 2012 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbybox Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Wow, thanks for the rapid response! A couple of very informative posts there. Kes, there's just one point you made that I'm unsure about. We will both be using the same cabinet, as long as we both have the same guns listed on our certificates should this be ok? As for the .243, I've seen maybe 3 deer in the 12 years we have lived here (though they were up on the hill where we don't often go). I don't think my dad would have put deer on his application and since his was accepted for just foxes should this make it easier for me? I like the idea of asking for a .223 if I'm not allowed the .243... The problem would come when we would need to have 2 separate cabinets though? Finally, do I need to list the shotguns I will be using anywhere? There is no section for guns that I wish to acquire in the SGC as there is in the FAC application. Thanks again, Gibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) If you are both using the guns/cabinet then they are in your possession, Its easier to put all guns on both certificates shouldnt be a problem seeing they have already been granted for your land I wouldnt put "rabbits" on for the .22, just put vermin and just put foxes/deer I wouldnt put "to protect young animals" If its a firearms cert. you dont need to list the shotguns on it. on the shotgun application it will just give you the right to own them, you list them as you go about buying them, but your dads shotguns will have have to be put on yours also Edited October 23, 2012 by shaun4860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If you are both using the guns/cabinet then they are in your possession, But they are not yet in your possession! Just make this very clear when filling in forms and have your interview. on the shotgun application it will just give you the right to own them, you list them as you go about buying them, but your dads shotguns will have have to be put on yours also That is another one interpreted differently by different forces. I share a shotgun cabinet with my wife and North Yorks see no reason to list the shotguns twice. They say I can borrow any gun for 72 hours without notification anyway. We share some firearms and they are listed on both certs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi all, I'm in the process of filling out a co-terminous application so I can use my old man's guns on the farm without his supervision. I have came across a few uncertainties when completing the form, can you help out? 1. Both forms ask for details of guns and ammunition in my possession, put none as they are stored in the house where both my Dad and I live should I list them or not as they don't actually belong to me? 2. Question 19 of the FAC asks for details of each firearm I wish to purchase, I intend to list the guns my Dad already owns here. They are a CZ 452 .22lr rifle and a .243 rifle. For the reason is it acceptable to put 'rabbit vermin control to protect farm crops' for the .22 and 'fox vermin control to protect young animals' for the .243? The box is fairly small and I'm not sure how to word the reason. The location of both will be on our farm which is already passed for both calibres so that is not a problem. put down what calibers your father has,the reason is pest control, your firearm department if they are any good will put the conditions that best suit you. 3. Should I attach a letter from my Dad stating that he gives me permission to shoot on his land? Will there be any conflict of interest with this as he is a relative? yes. 4. I have two possible candidates for referees in mind. One man is a prison officer who I have played in a band with for more than 5 years and the other is a SGC holder who works on the farm on occasions and is an offshore diver, I have known him for more than 7 years. Do you think they will be acceptable referees?yes. 5. Finally, I was thinking of asking for 500 .22 rounds to buy, 600 to hold and 100 .243 to buy, 200 to hold. Do you think this is about right for starting out? Put down what your father has. Thanks for your time, I look forward to the response! Cheers, Gibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerSim Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 TBH all sounds good. 1. You have none in your possession! 2. Yes again. 'Vermin' for the .22 and 'Fox and vermin' for the .243 simple. If your father has moderators (silencers) then make you you ask for slots for them too. 3. Yes you should, just a very simple explanation that he gives permission for you to share his guns and have them listed on both certificates. 4. Referees sound fine. 5. The ammo sounds sensible. If you are sharing storage with your father then I suggest that you put whatever ammo allowance he has! Good luck IMO, Apache has it nailed. a slightly more wordy answer might be:- 1) Don't list them! Possesion of a firearm without a cert is a serious offence, so please don't admit to this, as you are not in possesion anyway. I would be very surprised if you were prosecuted for this "mistake", but however surprised I am is of no value to you if you end up with a conviction for it. My advice would be to read up on the definition of possesion in the firearms acts - yes, I can explain it to you, BUT you will learn more by doing it yourself! 2. A covering letter to the FLD would be the way I would approach this - there are other ways, and you may like to consider ringing the FEO and telling him what you are doing - so that when the app lands, he will know all about it..... 3. This is a good question - so much so, that I have never thought of giving my own grown up kids such a letter - but, if they needed to prove permission for any reason, how would they do so? so YES YES YES!!!! I can't imagine any conflict of interest, especially given that you are trying to be more legal.... 4. IMO, More than adequate for the purpose. ( I have a Vet, who is a personnal friend, and a retired Army CO, also a personnal friend ). 5. Copy your Dad's allowances - ask the FLD if you can up the ammo qtys, as the reason you are doing all this paperwork, is to shoot more, - if that is the case! Talk it all through with your FEO - mine is most reasonable. ATB Sim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Dont know what area you come under but if your FLD is any good they will help you out with all this and should make it easy for you and your father, cant see a reason to get too anal with any of it,your feo should guide you in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 But they are not yet in your possession! Just make this very clear when filling in forms and have your interview. Good Point, but the FEO will know what he means as the guns are already there That is another one interpreted differently by different forces. I share a shotgun cabinet with my wife and North Yorks see no reason to list the shotguns twice. They say I can borrow any gun for 72 hours without notification anyway. We share some firearms and they are listed on both certs. Must be a Northumbria thing, my bro in law and his son have each others guns on their certificates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just looked and the lads from Scotland, so he will have it done the Scottish way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 ishare rifles with afarmer friend the clause" permission to borrow and use the rifles held on cert. no----in thename of-----"this means you are covered for any situation.idid this 20 years ago after we were pulled up by an aggressive pc who said i was in possession of afirearm without alicence in afield we had permissionwhen rabbitinghis reason ?if iclimbed agate and my friend passed me the gun while he climbed over i was holding an unlicenced fire arm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbybox Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks very much folks, really helped me out here! What is different about the 'Scottish way'? Are there different rules south of the border? Cheers, Gibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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