gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) You don't get the extended picture, why does it make sense that something YOU are not offended by make it sensible and tangiable that no-one else will? You miss understand the whole idea of my argument. I recognise that I and others by our human nature get offended by things. The difference here seems to be that I don't think that is a criminal offence or the states/Police's job to police that with arrests. Edited November 12, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You miss understand the whole idea of my argument. I recognise that I and others by our human nature get offended by things. The difference here seems to be that I don't think that is a criminal offence or the states/Police's job to police that with arrests. But I fear you will gazzthompson...at some point in your life you will feel so mortally offended, by something or some other, enough to make you cry and you'll have no option other than to eat your hat and ask for help...I only ask that you accept that that can happen to someone? I'm no rightist or leftist...I suppose the humanist is more me, I can't be flamed for empathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'd liken it to doing something really offensive at 'one' persons remeberance, Yep... with you there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Bloody Hell.... KES... I am honoured... you said I'm 'usually sensible' I'm quite choked! You should be at least twice a day based on the last drivel !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 But I fear you will gazzthompson...at some point in your life you will feel so mortally offended, by something or some other, enough to make you cry and you'll have no option other than to eat your hat and ask for help...I only ask that you accept that that can happen to someone? I'm no rightist or leftist...I suppose the humanist is more me, I can't be flamed for empathy. I am sure somebody will offend me to such a point that i will cry back to my mummy, But that's no damn business of the state or the police! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You should be at least twice a day based on the last drivel !!!!! Love you too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am sure somebody will offend me to such a point that i will cry back to my mummy, But that's no damn business of the state or the police! Simply unworthy of the debate so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 At the risk of causing offence... let's all be friends and take our thoughts to happier places! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 There was no attempt at irony. It is interesting though that you assume everyone is stupid. I was just suggesting you were desperately trying to claw an angle at the argument which is becoming increasingly clear. You didn't need me to point it out. Also, suggesting I would paint myself as a fool, you greatly underestimate me (off the back of that are you going to call me a narcissist too?) You've still not explained my 'moral high ground' stance, I don;t understand where I presume 'everyone' is stupid and the argument (I'd call it a debate) isn't clear, it will never will be when it involves the human right to do as he pleases...or Nihilism if we were accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 At the risk of causing offence... let's all be friends and take our thoughts to happier places! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0 Ok I forgive you but isnt this offensive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Ok I forgive you but isnt this offensive ? Nahhh.... it's impossible to not watch... awesome stuff! This is the 'happier place' Edited November 12, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Nahhh.... it's impossible to not watch... awesome stuff! For once and possibly the last time--agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You've still not explained my 'moral high ground' stance, I don;t understand where I presume 'everyone' is stupid and the argument (I'd call it a debate) isn't clear, it will never will be when it involves the human right to do as he pleases...or Nihilism if we were accurate. You appeared to be attacking gazz from an unmovable position (which I termed moral high ground) and then barking louder as gazz continued to disagree with you. For me trying to assess him as a narcissist or nihilist was a desperate ad hominem and not much had been done to address the point that freedom includes the freedom to 'offend'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 For once and possibly the last time--agreed. Diffusion tactics... sometimes the only weapon available to a keyboard ninja black ops mall warrior such as myself! You appeared to be attacking gazz from an unmovable position (which I termed moral high ground) and then barking louder as gazz continued to disagree with you. For me trying to assess him as a narcissist or nihilist was a desperate ad hominem and not much had been done to address the point that freedom includes the freedom to 'offend'. Wish you lot would stop using words and terms I have to look up on Google! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Personally I'm extremely offended to be called a narcissist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Diffusion tactics... sometimes the only weapon available to a keyboard ninja black ops mall warrior such as myself! Wish you lot would stop using words and terms I have to look up on Google! I'll try not to in future Edited November 12, 2012 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You appeared to be attacking gazz from an unmovable position (which I termed moral high ground) and then barking louder as gazz continued to disagree with you. For me trying to assess him as a narcissist or nihilist was a desperate ad hominem and not much had been done to address the point that freedom includes the freedom to 'offend'. And you're sticking with that opinion? And use the word nihilism as a negative in the same sentence? I've not 'attacked' gazz, or been offensive, purely trying to put my point across, I've not 'barked' used loud language or anything of the sort. If someone puts themselves in a unmovable situation (which gazz hasn't) that doesn't mean the person who replies claims moral ground does it surely?! The powers of debate are now debatable my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Personally I'm extremely offended to be called a narcissist. I am perfectly happy to admit to being one... don't think the wife would disagree much either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Either way, my rape is being mullered by pigeon, who's up for a pigeon drive in the midlands? This conversation can carry on in't pub..... I am perfectly happy to admit to being one... don't think the wife would disagree much either! Most wives wouldn't, I've just told Dr Kyska to go to bed, she wouldn't understand the 'fight' on the internet...she only did medicine at uni, unlike me, I got a 1st in internet warfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Either way, my rape is being mullered by pigeon, who's up for a pigeon drive in the midlands? This conversation can carry on in't pub..... Most wives wouldn't, I've just told Dr Kyska to go to bed, she wouldn't understand the 'fight' on the internet...she only did medicine at uni, unlike me, I got a 1st in internet warfare. Blimey... If I 'told' mrs Vipa to do anything at all I'd get a slap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Blimey... If I 'told' mrs Vipa to do anything at all I'd get a slap! I told her to 'move out' things are 'getting messy'. She got the jist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Either way, my rape is being mullered by pigeon, who's up for a pigeon drive in the midlands? This conversation can carry on in't pub..... Most wives wouldn't, I've just told Dr Kyska to go to bed, she wouldn't understand the 'fight' on the internet...she only did medicine at uni, unlike me, I got a 1st in internet warfare. I would love to help with some pigeons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 And you're sticking with that opinion? And use the word nihilism as a negative in the same sentence? I've not 'attacked' gazz, or been offensive, purely trying to put my point across, I've not 'barked' used loud language or anything of the sort. If someone puts themselves in a unmovable situation (which gazz hasn't) that doesn't mean the person who replies claims moral ground does it surely?! The powers of debate are now debatable my friend. Telling him to 'grow up' etc. appeared to be barking from where I was sitting. By freedom to offend I don't mean getting up into peoples' faces and giving it all that, but undertaking non-aggresive actions that people with different views may find offensive. In my mind there is nothing aggressive or criminal about burning a poppy, but it is in awfully bad taste. We are free to criticise the chap, and I am happy to do so, but I don't think we should be locking him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Telling him to 'grow up' etc. appeared to be barking from where I was sitting. By freedom to offend I don't mean getting up into peoples' faces and giving it all that, but undertaking non-aggresive actions that people with different views may find offensive. In my mind there is nothing aggressive or criminal about burning a poppy, but it is in awfully bad taste. We are free to criticise the chap, and I am happy to do so, but I don't think we should be locking him up. 'K whatever, he didn't get locked up, he got arrested for a public order offence and most likely let out after a cup of tea for his own safety...puts it in perspective doesn't it...now go out and shoot some rabbits. I would love to help with some pigeons! In all seriousness I am indeed planning some pigeon drives, where are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayman Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 In an ideal world we would all have the right to say whatever we like. In an ideal world we should be able to ignore anyone who offends us and most of the time we do. But we live in a society composed of a range of individuals. All of us have values where, at some point, we say enough is enough and those that step outside the bounds of the society need to be brought back in to line. It has to be the collective judgement that decides where those lines are drawn as they will span a range of opinions and circumstances. We all know that the effects of both words and actions can range from a simple disagreement to civil unrest or worse. History has some powerful lessons to teach. So yes, freedom of speech is important and should be protected but it has to exist in the context of a society and with that comes personal and social responsibility. Should the law have arrested this idiot, I don't know. Should they arrest someone who, by his words, poses a threat to our nation and creates civil unrest, I believe so. But both are just exercising their right to freedom of speech so neither should, apparently, be touched by the law. Complete freedom of speech is an ideal. The problem with an ideal concept is that at some point you have to add in people, and their brains come in all shapes and sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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