aris Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I hope this is not too OT for this Forum. But I found this an interesting read. The Swiss seem to have a good balance of gun ownership regulation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 The article is a bit pro-gun control biased. They only have the guy from Pro-Tell on a few paragraphs. Not to mention the whole argument is not given since only militia ammunition needds to be kept at a central storage facility not the personal ammunition somebody uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Indeed - but if you have personal ammunition - then you also have a license - and you have been both criminally and mentally vetted. Makes sense really. There is always a middle ground. Perhaps the UK has gone too far with the control, but I feel that in the US it is too lax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 No, effectively anyone in Switzerland who is 18 and has no criminal record or mental instability can buy a gun just like in the USA. The licence thing seems like just an official thing but if you meet the criteria then Swiss canton has to issue one, a bit I guess like the old shotgun licence you got from the post office, let's be realistic here, Switzerland has lax gun control and long may it continue . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Unfortunately it is much much easier to buy a weapon in the USA. Criminal checks only need to be done if buying from an arms dealer - not a personal sale. I don't think they check for mental stability - though that may differ from state to state. I wouldn't say they have lax gun control - the US has lax gun control. Switzerland has sensible gun control. And yes - long may sensibility continue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I hate these types of articles. They are lazy journalism and usually just an excuse to push a particular political point - usually a left-wing one. The use of carefully selected 'facts' is blindlingly obvious in these things. Quotes such as; ""But over the last 20 years, now that the majority of soldiers don't have ammunition at home, we have seen a decrease in gun violence and a dramatic decrease in gun-related suicides. Today we see maybe 200 gun suicides per year and it used to be 400, 20 years ago." are maningless. The number of suicides carried out with firearms, and the fact that they have fallen in number, isn't relevant. What matters is the overall numbers. If the total number of suicides carried out by all methods has fallen then he has a point. But, if it hasn't, he doesn't. It just means that people are using other methods by which to kill them selves. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 The article is a bit pro-gun control biased. They only have the guy from Pro-Tell on a few paragraphs. Not to mention the whole argument is not given since only militia ammunition needds to be kept at a central storage facility not the personal ammunition somebody uses. These articles are always misleading. Swiss gun laws are more strict than many here in the US realize, but they're not as strict as this article is trying to imply either. I remember a while back on one of the (American) gun forums I frequent, we had a Swiss shooter join in and he did a Q&A on Swiss gun laws. Yes, you need a permit to buy a gun, but it's easy to get, with standards varying between cantons. Concealed carry is basically illegal. Ownership of fully automatic weapons is still legal, but was restricted considerably in 1999. He also said the thing about having to fire all government issued ammo at the range is law, but not strictly enforced and regularly ignored. He posted a few pics of his collection, and trust me, they can own everything we can here in the States, and some things we can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I think the point of the article is that looking at the Swiss situation doesn't automatically translate to other countries. For one, the gun culture is very different. Two, everyone who has a firearm is either an army reservist (having done military training), or has a license and hence are vetted to own their firearm. It all boils down to being sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) I think all sides of the argument need to stop comparing countries . There are far too many social, Economic, historic and cultural differences to effectively compare, its cherry picking. Use data from the country in question, it's easier. Edited February 12, 2013 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 "I wouldn't say they have lax gun control - the US has lax gun control. Switzerland has sensible gun control. And yes - long may sensibility continue" I like lax gun control. The US in my opinion has it right. "I think all sides of the argument need to stop comparing countries . There are far too many social, Economic, historic and cultural differences to effectively compare, its cherry picking. " This People keep comparing America to Switzerland when America has a huge gang problem and inner city violence problem, compared to Switzerland which is arguably the most peaceful nation on earth. Then again rural america is just as safe and peaceful as Switzerland is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Two, everyone who has a firearm is either an army reservist (having done military training), or has a license and hence are vetted to own their firearm. It all boils down to being sensible. Getting a licence in Switzerland is much easier than Uk, I don't think I would call it exactly "vettting". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Getting a licence in Switzerland is much easier than Uk, I don't think I would call it exactly "vettting". If they check your criminal & medical records - then it is vetting. Not much different to getting a SGC in the UK and quite sensible. Unfortunately any idiot in the US can legally get hold of a gun with no vetting whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I think all sides of the argument need to stop comparing countries . There are far too many social, Economic, historic and cultural differences to effectively compare, its cherry picking. Use data from the country in question, it's easier. I agree with this. What works for one country will not work for another. For instance, in the UK you hardly ever deal with an armed policeman. In the US if you are pulled over by a traffic cop, his hand is on the holster and you are required to have your hands on the steering wheel when he approaches you. Americans are fine with this - it is what they are used to and part of their culture. I doubt the British public would take kindly it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) If they check your criminal & medical records - then it is vetting. Not much different to getting a SGC in the UK and quite sensible. Unfortunately any idiot in the US can legally get hold of a gun with no vetting whatsoever. They do an instant background check when buying form a dealer that is law. Only when it is a private sale like from family members or at a gun show. People have this notion that anyone can get a gun in the USA but it's not that true. Like CRB all vetting proves is that you haven't done anything wrong yet or haven't been caught with anything. Let's not forget, Michael Ryan, Derrick Bird and Thomas Hamilton were all vetted for their legal firearms. A criminal is not going to submitt to vetting or to any background check for getting a gun. So vetting which is supposed to: A) find criminals B) find crazy mass murderers Is not going to achieve its goal. It's only going to be applied to law abiding people with no criminal record and who probably haven't done anything wrong. Edited February 12, 2013 by Steppenwolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 No, effectively anyone in Switzerland who is 18 and has no criminal record or mental instability can buy a gun just like in the USA. The licence thing seems like just an official thing but if you meet the criteria then Swiss canton has to issue one, a bit I guess like the old shotgun licence you got from the post office, let's be realistic here, Switzerland has lax gun control and long may it continue . Whilst conveniently forgetting that background checks for criminal record or history of mental illness, depression, addiction etc are not done as a matter of course in the US. Many US states require no background checks whatsoever. Switzerland is often held up by "liberty-luvvin Merkins" as the 'model' by which access to weapons should be applied - when they (again, conveniently) forget that the process for applying for a weapon's permit in Switzerland is just as stringent, and perhaps more so, than that in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 More so than the UK? LOL OK...next you will tell me full autos are avilable to the civilian population in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 More so than the UK? LOL OK...next you will tell me full autos are avilable to the civilian population in China. You've clearly not red the article - and if you have, you've done your usual trick of filtering out anything (regardless of how accurate) with which you disagree. C'est la vie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dont worry about aris or L,S&B they are both anti-gun unless it is their particular sector of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dont worry about aris or L,S&B they are both anti-gun unless it is their particular sector of shooting. How do you presume to know me so well? I'm not anti-gun at all. I am in favour of sensible gun control though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Do you mean what you perceive to be sensible or what is sensible. Alot og gun control laws are what people perceive to be sensible than what is actually sensible. Take the controls over expanding ammo, what a waste of time, Is it going to matter whether you get shot with a FMJ .308 or a expanding .308? or how about shotgun barrels having to be 24" Sensible controls are few and far between. I would prefere it if it was like the early 1900's only a handful of people murdered with guns and the only controls be the restriction on vagrants owning pistols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Do you mean what you perceive to be sensible or what is sensible. Alot og gun control laws are what people perceive to be sensible than what is actually sensible. Take the controls over expanding ammo, what a waste of time, Is it going to matter whether you get shot with a FMJ .308 or a expanding .308? or how about shotgun barrels having to be 24" Sensible controls are few and far between. I would prefere it if it was like the early 1900's only a handful of people murdered with guns and the only controls be the restriction on vagrants owning pistols. For Britain - I think they are mostly sensible. We don't live in the early 1900's - we live in the early 2000's. The world has changed a fair bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 For Britain - I think they are mostly sensible. We don't live in the early 1900's - we live in the early 2000's. The world has changed a fair bit. How is it that the more sensible they get the higher the incedence of misuse? After the second world war and before the 68,87,97 acts the country was full of trained killers who had a lot to complain about and yet guns were seldom misused. Obviously like LSB your sector of shooting was not banned otherwise you would not be saying uk laws were sensible. I am sure we could come up with hundreds of silly restricitions whihc do nothing for public safety, starting with the already mentioned expanding ammo, short barrelled shotguns, ammo limits, closed licenses etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dont worry about aris or L,S&B they are both anti-gun unless it is their particular sector of shooting. Hardly - merely just anti-******** artistes who make no effort to fact-check their posts here before gobbing-off like some paranoid whiner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Do you mean what you perceive to be sensible or what is sensible. Alot og gun control laws are what people perceive to be sensible than what is actually sensible. Take the controls over expanding ammo, what a waste of time, Is it going to matter whether you get shot with a FMJ .308 or a expanding .308? or how about shotgun barrels having to be 24" Sensible controls are few and far between. I would prefere it if it was like the early 1900's only a handful of people murdered with guns and the only controls be the restriction on vagrants owning pistols. This is exactly my feeling. When you start agreeing with gun control it is only a matter of how much are you willing to compromise now before we try to shaft you some more in the future. in fact gun control is so far advanced in the UK that the so called shooting community are doing it for us. You know who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 How is it that the more sensible they get the higher the incedence of misuse? After the second world war and before the 68,87,97 acts the country was full of trained killers who had a lot to complain about and yet guns were seldom misused. Obviously like LSB your sector of shooting was not banned otherwise you would not be saying uk laws were sensible. I am sure we could come up with hundreds of silly restricitions whihc do nothing for public safety, starting with the already mentioned expanding ammo, short barrelled shotguns, ammo limits, closed licenses etc This is exactly my feeling. When you start agreeing with gun control it is only a matter of how much are you willing to compromise now before we try to shaft you some more in the future. in fact gun control is so far advanced in the UK that the so called shooting community are doing it for us. You know who you are. Did you two just fall asleep and miss the biggest shooting show in the country or something? There were million of pounds worth of all manner of guns to be bought - legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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