Redgum Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I have just about mastered my technique for calling Muntjac with the buttalo, it takes patience and works best from a high seat. The call has to be soft with both holes covered, with the rhythm of a heart beat for not to long with intervals of ten minutes in between or more. My last two outings have produced quality Munty bucks. I had a call from my local garden centre this week saying that the Munty's had been barking well in the woods bordering the tree nursery, an area which is part of one of my permissions. Armed with my buttalo I set out at first light, with no high seat in this area I positioned myself behind a fallen tree which gave me good vision across a couple of rides. It was a beautiful morning but as the sun crept higher into the sky and not a Muntjac bark around I was thinking that I would draw a blank. As I decided whether to pack up or not I noticed movement to my right, as fellow stalkers will know even a squirrel can make the heart momentarily beat a little faster. I waited but nothing, but just as I had put my rifle down onto the old tree to unload a Roe buck appeared just twenty yards away walking straight toward me. I froze as I was in full view, as the deer sniffing the ground I reached slowly for my rifle, as soon as I moved the buck put his head up, I froze again. This happened a couple of times as the buck moved across within ten yards of me. Eventually he was obscured by a tree but was moving into a slight clearing, this would be my last and only chance of a shot. I moved slowly to pick up the rifle, just as I brought it toward me the bucks head was up, craning from side to side trying to make out what I was. The buck was taking no more chances and with several loud barks sped off into the undergrowth, stopping about 100yds away for one last look, I could only just see him through the brambles and decided to give the buttalo a gentle squeeze. Without delay the buck came rushing back toward me, stopping in the clearing once again craning his head from side to side try to judge what was behind the tree. This was to be the Roe bucks fatal mistake, presenting himself side on just forty yards away for the shot, he dropped on the spot. It just goes to prove that its always worth having a buttalo in your pocket even when the bucks aren't rutting, it may just make that little bit of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 a very nice buck indeed .. i have had a buttalo for some time now and never really used it but on the last few trips i swear it has put some nice bucks in front of me.. very well done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 nice buck, were the heck did you place the shot? it looks like the exit wound along its spine in the photo? That's a fairly taken shot from your story and far more sporting than murdering them at a distance from a high seat and you deserved that buck for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 That was the exit wound, the buck was up the bank from me though the bullet took out the top of the heart and the animal dropped were it stood, surprisingly little meat damage for the 85gr spitzer compare with some I have shot , ( still got a few to use up before just using 100gr ). No gut or liver damage and nice to clean out apart from the blood of course. Its rare for Roe just to drop so it did the job well, free hand with the heart pumping with anticipation for first seeing the buck surprised I hit it at all . Its nice when they just drop down like that, you can see by the hair and blood its still in the position it dropped without a twitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 That was the exit wound, the buck was up the bank from me though the bullet took out the top of the heart and the animal dropped were it stood, surprisingly little meat damage for the 85gr spitzer compare with some I have shot , ( still got a few to use up before just using 100gr ). No gut or liver damage and nice to clean out apart from the blood of course. Its rare for Roe just to drop so it did the job well, free hand with the heart pumping with anticipation for first seeing the buck surprised I hit it at all . Its nice when they just drop down like that, you can see by the hair and blood its still in the position it dropped without a twitch.Yeah that probably due to you paralyzing it with being so close to the spine on exit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Though I aim two thirds down from the back on boiler room shots I have found that the shots that have been slightly high and around the top of the heart have done the job well with less meat damage on the smaller deer species than shots slightly to low. You know yourself Kent that to place a bullet clean through the centre of the heart in field conditions and the various angles deer present themselves in. Yes there was spine damage on the exit and buy the neatish hole ( for a 85gr soft point at 40yds) on the entry I'm guessing the bullet went between the ribs on the way in and clipped the top of one on the way out. The carcass is hanging in the chiller at the moment but will be able to see more when the rapper is off. The picture below is of how I like to see the pluck come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 top of the heart stops all the plumbing instantly its like putting a bomb on your outlet and inlet pipes on your central heating boiler. small bone fragments and bullet jacket will hit the spine and put a beast down although this one never got chance to get up again as you also unplumbed him. I am sure you had a backstop figured out for this shot but it reads pretty bad the way you describe (suppose you need to be there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 There was a bramble patch behind him, what was left of the bullet after running down the spine should have got tangled in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 top of the heart stops all the plumbing instantly its like putting a bomb on your outlet and inlet pipes on your central heating boiler. small bone fragments and bullet jacket will hit the spine and put a beast down although this one never got chance to get up again as you also unplumbed him. I am sure you had a backstop figured out for this shot but it reads pretty bad the way you describe (suppose you need to be there) Well,ask a stupid question , but I will clarify as some young gun may think my last post was serious. Like most of my ground its very steep and I was at the bottom of the hill, the woodland is very steep with tracks running across from logging operations, imagine it as a giant set of steps. The woodland is run as regeneration rather than re planting so feld areas soon become very overgrown leaving old logging tracks as the main opportunity of a clear shot. The buck was on the next track up and from were I was, you would have to push your head back as far as possible to see the sky above the ground. Like you said Kent you really need to be there and pretty fit at that. Shot placement is such a big learning curve isn't it as things are never straight forward but safety has to be paramount. I remember shooting one of my first deer from a high seat, a munty doe, I had paid so much attention to the animal being pregnant and the right animal to take out, I placed the shot in the text book position for the heart but due to the angle of the shooting position missed the heart and blew most of the rib cage away below the heart. She didn't go far before going down but I shot her again anyway. That's the nature of shooting isn't it, very few deer just stop at your zeroed range and stand completely square on for more than 3 seconds if at all, experience is the only thing that's going to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah, wasn't doubting you just passing comment on the very unusual place of exit. About time more training / testing was included at Level one for less than broadside on shot placements, if you think of how the test is run its actually quite unusual to be square on and be able to take the broadside shot, normally you might be shooting from above down into the ground for it to be safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah, wasn't doubting you just passing comment on the very unusual place of exit. About time more training / testing was included at Level one for less than broadside on shot placements, if you think of how the test is run its actually quite unusual to be square on and be able to take the broadside shot, normally you might be shooting from above down into the ground for it to be safe Couldn't agree more, there is a section in the DSC1 training manual on shot placement but that wasn't instilled into me at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I want to give muntjac calling a go with the buttalo soon, I don't suppose you could have a go at recording the sound you use could you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 this is a good vid it shows some good reactions to the call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Although it seems to end up further away than where it started, a bit like my fox calling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 lol i had two roe does in the lamp a few months back and was trying the buttalo both ran to within kicking distance from me time after time ... they where mad for it... never seen them act that way over the call i was with another pw member he went and bought one the next day lol lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 We called some fallow in using one ages ago, this was just in the edge of a wood out on a dog walk. As we were in the dark they couldn't see us and just kept coming and coming until they were about 10 yards away :blink: I was curious as to how RG varied the sound to get muntjac in as I have some new ground that has a very high count [currently ] of muntjac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 sounds like we may be seeing another nice head from you then dunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 We called some fallow in using one ages ago, this was just in the edge of a wood out on a dog walk. As we were in the dark they couldn't see us and just kept coming and coming until they were about 10 yards away :blink: I was curious as to how RG varied the sound to get muntjac in as I have some new ground that has a very high count [currently ] of muntjac Must say that it seems to work best from a high seat as the animals creep up from any direction then I think its fair to say more deer are shot from high seats than stalk up anyway as it increases the odds in your favour. To record and put on here sounds a bit techno for me but I will try to explain what works best for me. I use the bullalo with either one, more often two of the holes blocked by fingers or a bit of bicycle tube, press your thumb down on the bulb softly half way down to give a soft tone. Release and as the rubber returns to normal shape depress again, this should be roughly resting heart beat rhythm, I do this 8 times just because this is a number I thought up. Be patient and leave a good long gap between call bursts, if nothing happens then increase gap between bursts. It doesn't always work but mostly gets some response, buzzards love it too if its a bit louder. I was on a cull last month to thin out Muntys and a few Roe does on a large pheasant shooting estate , by ten am I had shot four Muntys and two roe does, my two comrades ( that usually take the mick out of my calling), both been stalking far longer than me had shot nothing. I dress my deer and chucked them in the chiller before getting some z's in the truck while my comrades worked hard for the rest of the day for two Munty does. I have heard, only on two occasions, Munty does softly call with a sound similar to a very quiet buttalo, was quite surprised when bucks appeared rather than fawns. Don't be surprised to see nothing but then get the fright of your life when you scale down from the seat and a Munty bursts out from vegetation two yards away. Good luck with it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Couldn't agree more, there is a section in the DSC1 training manual on shot placement but that wasn't instilled into me at the time. DMQ just want high pass rates, the training providers want the income. So simple to mark were the shot is best placed at a variety of angles. When I did my level 2 every shot entry and exit had to be marked. that was over ten years ago though and I know some stuff has changed in that time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Entry and exit still have to be marked with a cross, the DSC2 is a much better place to pass on experience to the student as your one to one so once they have done their stalk you can put em right or not as the case maybe. This year I was excepted as an accredited witness all barre the briefing next month, not much has changed over the last few years apart from the DSC2 forms being available in pdf format so you can type out your required questions, it means you don't have to sit there writing after a hard stalk, you can just hold the torch for the student Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Thanks for the step by step I will be giving that a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Entry and exit still have to be marked with a cross, the DSC2 is a much better place to pass on experience to the student as your one to one so once they have done their stalk you can put em right or not as the case maybe. This year I was excepted as an accredited witness all barre the briefing next month, not much has changed over the last few years apart from the DSC2 forms being available in pdf format so you can type out your required questions, it means you don't have to sit there writing after a hard stalk, you can just hold the torch for the student But its not meant to be a teaching? its an assessment, has this changed somehow? The assessor or the witness was not meant to give advice when I did it only question you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 spose your accessor had a hard job with you as you seem to have difficulty in reading. If you read my post I mention offering experience after stalk has finished. You have just reminded me why you get up my nose so much Kent, I have tried to be patient with you as you have picked my first post about a successful roe stalk apart. Why oh why is it not meant to be teaching, if a chap turns up with a yellow coat, revolving hat , bayonet ,bells on his boots holding his pants above his head to find the wind direction would it not be courteous to offer a tad of advice toward his future stalking career ( am I talking about one of your assessments kent). To have three successful stalks is hard work unless you stick your hand in your pocket and do it all in a day and learn nowt. I will assess my candidates fairly and they will have to answer the questions that will probably be a bit hard for you and if I think I can offer any advice at the end of it to help them on future witnessed stalks then the hell I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) spose your accessor had a hard job with you as you seem to have difficulty in reading. If you read my post I mention offering experience after stalk has finished. You have just reminded me why you get up my nose so much Kent, I have tried to be patient with you as you have picked my first post about a successful roe stalk apart. Why oh why is it not meant to be teaching, if a chap turns up with a yellow coat, revolving hat , bayonet ,bells on his boots holding his pants above his head to find the wind direction would it not be courteous to offer a tad of advice toward his future stalking career ( am I talking about one of your assessments kent). To have three successful stalks is hard work unless you stick your hand in your pocket and do it all in a day and learn nowt. I will assess my candidates fairly and they will have to answer the questions that will probably be a bit hard for you and if I think I can offer any advice at the end of it to help them on future witnessed stalks then the hell I will. The rant is not required, It was serious in my question. I did my 2 a long time ago now and there were many changes proposed (we used to fill the forms in after the stalk and there was a proposal for them to be carried in the field and questions also posed there at the time) . sorry I spotted your exit wound and mentioned it I still cannot picture the place were that could be done though but I am sure you had thought it through and had one, shots taken in the heat of the moment are always the most dangerous and yes I have and learned from it my shot assessment has evolved over the years to the point were I think no shot is 100% safe some just carry a lot higher or lot lower risk. I have only one gripe with DMQ and its all criteria based around level 2 being an assessment of skill learned at 1 (lets be honest now they are not, otherwise there wouldn't be all these extra courses available in prep for level 2). Get it straight though you no nothing of my level 2 assessment as it was likely way before your own was sat ( I seem to remember discussing it with you before you put in for it ?), I didn't do mine in a day as my witness wouldn't allow it and neither might he allow anything but planned stalks (no hide or high seat). This was his own interpretation of "deer stalking" as being different to culling or shooting and it wasn't in a deer park either it was woodland fallow and roe from forestry in Scotland during winter I accepted this (his personal thoughts) although it wasn't required from DMQ. Though I did shoot three the first outing he only accepted two a day total and also more previous on other venues (personal English permissions of mine were he guested) in front of him before I put in for it. So lets not present legally slanderous remarks as fact hey, as we both have dated certs it going to be very easy to prove you were not present at the time and I don't know were to even buy a revolving hat I think your out of order and on shaky ground Edited April 25, 2014 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 shame to see a good post getting wrecked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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