Is my pup gunshy or noise sensitve or just afraid of the sight of the

[deeksofdoom]

NTTF,

Last night I took My 11month old GWP bitch out to try her with the gun, up until this I had only been using a childs cap gun when doing some retrieving in the Garden, firing it trowing the dummy and then telling her to go and fetch. At first she was well nervous of the cap gun and would put her tail between her legs when it was fired, however I got her out of this by throwing her a treat when I fired it and made it into a sort of game and she doesn't mind it now. I've also brought her to a couple of clay shoots, and kept her well back and threw the dummy for her and just generally played and left her have a good time so as to associate the gunfire with fun.

 

However back to the story last night I brought her out with the gun for the first time, I sat her in the field and walked off, as I was walking away she started creeping forward so I had to correct her twice for this, finally I got out to a distance of 100 metres, I fired my first shot through a dummy for her and she came bounding in to retrieve it, picked it up and brought it back to me.

 

So then I repeated the exercise brought her out about 100 metres sat her down again I had to correct her for creeping forward but then I managed to get to my spot 100metres away and I fired the second shot and through the dummy, again she ran in towards me retrived the dummy and that was fine.

 

So then I repeated the exercise from about 50 metres same again no creeping forward this time, I fired my shot and she went off to retrive the dummy all was fine, or so I thought,

 

I left her run around a bit and the I called her over, but as soon as she saw the gun in my hand she put her tail between her legs and ran off about 15 metres.

 

So I blew the recall made her sit, as soon as I moved the gun again she she ran off, called her back made her sit and put the gun up to my shoulder she ran around me tail between her legs.

 

This went on for a bit I was getting worried, finally I got the treats out sat her down, kept telling her to stay and put the gun into my shoulder, if she stayed put I gave her a treat and told her she was a good girl, kept on doing this for a while until she was sitting comfortably enough with me standing beside her bringing the gun up to my shoulder and then down and giving her a treat.

 

So my question is,....... ......... WHAT NOW?

[Highlander]

I know this is Dans patch and I'm not trying to upstage him and he might well disagree with me anyway but my 'dog training' mentor, a game keeper to HMQ taught me this trick.

 

It's all psychological with dogs, start off right before they ever get near a gun and develop shyness. Metal bowls = food = nice. Metal bowls dropped on floor make a loud noise/bang = food = nice. This guy usually had around 20/25 dogs in his kennels at any one time and never a gun shy one between 'em.

[new to the flock]

Okay no need to panic yet. You made some mistakes last night two biggest ones were you had the dog static...sitting.....and you jumped the distance too fast. I am also suspecting that you used full loads last night aswell.

 

First off your dog is now gun sensitive so we need to get her feeling comfortable around both the site and smell of the gun again. Have the gun out and put it on the ground at feeding time, playing and carry it walking etc. This is covered in detail in Introducing Your Dog To Gun Fire.

 

What I think you should try after she is comfortable with the gun again is getting a gunner and either the rabbit and bird meathod, or the walking throwing balls and bumpers method. See below

 

It is very hard to introduce a dog to gun by yourself, besure to get a gunner and if needed a thrower to help.

 

Go through the info below and then if you have any questions as to what I am suggesting we can go over them.

 

Read these two training outlines as they cover the proper proceedures.

 

Introducing Your Dog To Gunfire, a Training Outline

 

One of the hardest problems to correct is gun shyness or gun sensitivity once it is instilled in a dog. Unfortunately, introducing a dog to gun fire is the one place most people make mistakes. Like all other aspects of field work the introduction of the gun needs to be introduces in steps, with positive rewards and praise. There are varying degrees of gun shyness, from the dog that flinches or runs from the sound of the gun, to the dog that hides behind the furniture at the mere site of a gun. The common thread to any of these behaviours is that the dog has had a bad experiance with a load noise be it gunshots, thunder, or fireworks.

 

So how do we over avoid these problems? The best way is to deal with a breeder who takes the time to introduce his puppies, from the time they are born till the time they go home with their new owners, to the sound of load noises. Personally, when I have a litter of pups on the ground from the time that they are a week old things progressively get louder in the nursery. In the beginning I will tap a metel pie plate with my fingers for 3 or 4 days until everyone is comfortable and taking no notice. I then start banging two pie plates together increasing the noise they make over the course of a few days. Once the pups are starting in on their own food I progress to banging empty food bowls together as the pups dive into the food placed down for them. By the second week of them eating on their own, I will have an assistant firing a childs cap gun 20 meters away while they dive into the food. When I am sure that none of the pups are having any problems to the noise I have the cap gun come closer and closer, until it is right in the puppy pen as well.

 

Another step that I like to add with young pups or with an 8 week old pup that I have bought is the sound of gun fire to music, which can be left playing. There are a number of products on the market for this purpose, but the best that I have found is from "Starfire" and is produced as a cure for your dogs fear of gun fire.The cd has 14 segments with gunfire set to music. The key to its success it that the music is set to the dogs heart beat, and the gun fire is added very softly and slowly. What I have done for my use is broken the cd down further into 14 seperate cds so that I can leave it playing softly in the back ground with out fear of it moving forward to quickly. I will normally take a pup ahead 1 cd per week untill we have gone through all 14 disks. At the end of the 14 weeks I have a pup that is listening to a pump action shotgun being fire, and the action being worked and has no fear of the sound. I then proceed to introducing him to the sight and scent of the gun, and then onto the introduction of the gun in the field where everything comes together.

 

Now the above is great if you are dealing with puppies, but what if you have an older dog to introduce? Personally , I like to make sure that the dog is comfortable with the sight and scent of the gun before anything else. To do this I bring the shotgun out and sit down on the floor with it, laying it on the ground. I then proceed to make a fuse over the dog as he sniffs if, and plays around it. I will also lay the gun on the floor when it is feeding time and set the food down right beside the gun, letting the dog relate the food reward to the sight and scent of the gun. Over a two week time period I will also carry the gun while we go out for walks or while playing fetch. During this time the dog becomes accustomed to the gun being present and relates it to all things fun and good.

 

It is now time to introduce the dog to the noise of the gun in the field. The worse things that you could do is take the dog to your local clay grounds where he is going to be over whelmed by the noise of guns going off or to shoot right over or beside him. I find the best way to introduce the noise of the gun is to have a helper. This way I can place my helper 60 meters off to the side and slightly forward of the dog and myself. I also like to do this is 3 stages working the gun in closer over the progression of each stage. In the first stage I use 20 guage shells that only have primers. In the second stage I use 12 guage shells that only have primers. In the third stage I use full load 12 guage poppers. I use the shells with just primers as I find they have a softer sound, and not a hard crack of a .22 cal blank.

 

Personally I like to introduce the gun with the dog chasing birds, which I plant in the field before entering with the dog, or rabbits. This allows him to be hunting and focused on something fun as the sound of the gun goes off. The same can be accomplished using bumpers or balls for him to fetch if he has a solid drive for the retrieving of them.

 

When using birds or rabbits I have my gunner who is 60 meters off to the side and slightly ahead of us fire a shot when a bird goes up or a rabbit bolts. You can signal him by raising your arm if need be. I also make sure that I am carrying my gun empty so that the dog, associates the fun with my having it along. If all goes well and the dog shows no reaction to the sound of the gun going off, I will move my gunner in 10 meters for the next flush or bolt. If on the next flush the dog shows no sign of concern the gun comes in again, and this is repeated until the gun is walking along side us. IF AT ANY TIME The dog shows signs of concern move the gun back out 20 meters and repeat at that distance. Then proceed to come in on 10 meter increments. REMEMBER This does not have to be accomplished in one session. If at the end of the session the gunner is beside you, on your next day out fire a 20 guage primer on your first flush and then stay at that distance and fire a 12 guage primer. This will allow you to evaluate the dog to be sure that there are no problems developing. As with the 20 guage, work your way in with the 12 guage primers during the session, or over however many sessions it takes for your dog to become comfortable with the gunner beside you.

 

The next step is to work your way in using the 12 guage poppers. Again start by having your gunner out 60 meters and firing the first round as just a 12 guage primer. Then switch to the poppers working in at the dogs comfort rate until your gunner is beside you. On your next session out You should be able to comfortably shoot over your dog,using live shells and dropping quarry for your dog to retrieve. However be certain to NEVER shoot directly over or across your dog subjecting him to muzzel blast.

 

To introduce the gun using bumpers or balls, set your gunner up the same and move him in the same as above. The differance is that you are going to throw the ball as you walk and your gunner is going to shoot as it is in the air. Besure that the dog is already chasing the ball before the shot is fired.

 

By following the above your dog will have a stress free intrduction to the gun, and you will have an enjoyable companion for your shooting.

 

NTTF

 

 

Correcting Gun Sensitivity/Gun Shyness, a Training Outline

 

A shyness or sensitivity to the gun can be the result of many different situations including; poor socialization, taking shortcuts in training or improper introduction to the sound of the gun.

 

This behaviour can usually be corrected especially if the dog was started and introduced to the gun properly in the first place. Be sure to understand why the dog is acting sensitive or shy. Did he become frightened by an unexpected shot, was he muzzle blasted or did he become hurt on a branch or bramble at the same time you shot that bird? Knowing the cause is the beginning of the cure. Be sure not to recreate the situation while retraining.

 

"Sensitive" is used to describe a level of concern or fear. With the discontinuance of that particular stimulus, the dog recovers quickly and continues with the work at hand. "Shy" is used to describe a much deeper and stronger fear which overpowers the dog, causing him to shut down .

 

How do we overcome these problems? Simple, we help the dog realize and associate the sound of the gun with the joy of chasing and retrieving birds. How long will this take? There is no set time period. It takes as long as it takes. All dog are different. You, as the trainer, must decide when the dog is ready to take the next step. If you take your time; 1 week, 1 month, 6 months, you will succeed. However, if you rush to "make things better" you are setting both of you up for failure. The amount of time is also dependent of the level of shynes or fear. A deeply seated fear will take longer to correct than a simple concern.

 

What you Need

 

I find a .22 cal blank pistol too harsh and sharp for this training. I prefer to use 20 guage shot shells that have only a primer. These give a nice soft "pop" compared to regular blank pistols or shot gun primers. You are also going to require; a check cord, a good supply of training pigeons, a gunner and a thrower, both of whom will need to be well versed in what you want to accomplish. It is also best to work in a relatively quiet area. Unexpected loud noises are not what you need at this point.

 

The How To

 

This article assumes that gun sensitivity/shyness is the only problem that needs to be corrected. Other training issues must be dealt with separately. Training sessions should be approximately 15 minutes in length and always end on a positive experience. Resist the temptation to "just one more".

 

Start by using a clipped wing pigeon and letting the dog carry it around for a while. What if he won't take it from you? Not to worry. Place the bird on the ground in a controlled area (fenced) and walk away, leaving him to investigate. It may take him a while and this may be your first couple of sessions, but his curiosity will get the best of him. Be patient. At first, he will investigate the bird by watching and smelling but soon enough he will pick it up and carry it.

 

Once the dog is comfortable carrying the bird, toss a clipped wing pigeon a short distance, one to two feet in front of him. Encourage him to give chase. At this point, you are trying to build excitement, prey drive and confidence while diverting his attention. When he picks up the bird, do not immediately try to take it from him upon his return. Allow him the reward of holding it and praise him.

 

The next step is to hold your dog and toss the pigeon out a short distance, six to eight yards, so that it lands in the open. Send you dog after the bird, encouraging him to chase, catch and retrieve. Once again, when he returns, allow him to hold the bird while you lavish praise upon him. Next, using your thrower, who understands what to do, extend your retrieves out 15 to 20 yards. Be sure that the thrower has your dog's attention before tossing the bird. This is easily accomplished with a few "hey, hey, hey's" or "pup, pup, pup's".

 

Remember! Do not be in a hurry. You are building your dog's prey drive and excitement at this stage as well as his confidence that there is nothing to be afraid of. Use as many sessions as necessary to build your dog's enthusiasm. There is no gun at this point. Your dog must be 100% comfortable with birds before you proceed. You do not want your dog to associate birds with the noise of the gun until he is comfotable. At this point, you want his full attention and drive on birds. If necessary, use the check cord to guide him back to you, praise and pet him up taking the bird after an appropriate wait. Remember! Use 15 minute sessions up to two times per day to accomplish this stage.

 

When your dog is excited and happily retrieving birds at a distance, approximately 50 yards, it will be time to start to introduce the gun. Caution: Take care with the placement of your gunner. You do not want to put additional pressure on your dog by sending him into the source of the gun sound. Have the gunner at a 45 degree angle to the dog's line of retrieve. Once again, I like to use a 20 guage shot shell with primer only, as this delivers a soft sound compared to the harsher snap of a .22 cal starter's pistol of shotgun poppers. Our purpose now is to work your way up to these harsher sounds. Set your thrower out 20 yards and your gunner out 75 yards. Toss a couple of pigeons yourself to get the dog excited. Signal the gunner to fire a shot on your next toss. When you throw, allow the dog to chase immediately so he is in full chase while the bird is in the air when the gun is fired. Remember! This is not the time to be working on steadiness training. You want your dog's full attention on the falling bird; this way he will not even notice the shot. Be sure to have a second bird ready to be tossed in front of the dog if he shows any indication of noticing the sound of the shot. End of session.

 

If your dog is not showing any problems at this point, continue tossing birds out but have the gunner shoot earlier in the throw, progessing to the point that the shot comes just before the bird is thrown. We want the dog to associate the sound of the gun to the joy of birds. Once the shot is coming at the start of the throw and your dog is not exhibiting any signs of distress, it is time to start extending the retrieves; while bringing the gun closer. Assess your dog every time you move your shooter in. If there are any signs of distress; move your shooter back and repeat the process. Do not bring the gun more than 5 yards closer at a time and keep your thrower no more than 25 yards from you.

 

Continue these exercises until the gunner is standing beside you. At this point, your dog has become comfortable with the soft pop sound of the 20 guage primer. It is time to put your gunner back out to the 75 yard mark and repeat the exercises using a .22 cal blank pistol. Do not rush! Take your time and allow your dog to become accustomed to the harsher sound. After several sessions, you will once again find your gunner standing next to you. It is now time to start over at the 75 yard mark with the 12 guarge working your way in slowly over several sessions. Once the gunner and his 12 guage are standing with you, you can start to steady your dog off.

 

Be sure to take your time and not to rush this training. It is also important to mix in obedience training, swim training and just plain fun time.

 

Remember: Keep it fun!

 

NTTF

[new to the flock]

I know this is Dans patch and I'm not trying to upstage him and he might well disagree with me anyway but my 'dog training' mentor, a game keeper to HMQ taught me this trick.

 

It's all psychological with dogs, start off right before they ever get near a gun and develop shyness. Metal bowls = food = nice. Metal bowls dropped on floor make a loud noise/bang = food = nice. This guy usually had around 20/25 dogs in his kennels at any one time and never a gun shy one between 'em.

 

I agree 100% Highlander

 

NTTF

[deeksofdoom]

Thanks for the replies, those were fairly stupid mistakes, so for the next couple of weeks or until such a time as the dog is comfortable with the sight and smell of the gun all I'll be doing is laying the gun on the floor beside her bowl at feeding times, taking the dog for walks with the gun and any training I'll be doing is with the gun in hand until such a time as she's not taking any notice of it.

I'll keep you posted Dan.

[Lancs Lad]

Thanks for the replies, those were fairly stupid mistakes, so for the next couple of weeks or until such a time as the dog is comfortable with the sight and smell of the gun all I'll be doing is laying the gun on the floor beside her bowl at feeding times, taking the dog for walks with the gun and any training I'll be doing is with the gun in hand until such a time as she's not taking any notice of it.

I'll keep you posted Dan.

 

 

Just imagine your face.........as you leave pup to chow down with a set of H&H's either side of the food and water bowls....come back to find chow not touched, but mutley chewing on either side of your finest hand polished walnuts...........

[Merman]

Don't despair! After making excellent progress with my Golden Retriever last summer I took him shooting when I went out after pigeons. I was being too ambitious and after a couple of mistakes he ended up running off 10 yards and cowering every time I put the gun in my shoulder.

 

Now that I've done more training with him and he associates loud bangs with birds and rabbits he is fine.

 

He's still hard work, but the gun doesn't bother him at all now.

 

Merman

[deeksofdoom]

Well after spending the last month doing all my training with the pup with gun in hand, I decided it was time to try her with gunfire once more. Got five shotgun cartridge primers and headed out for the fields done some retrieving and some quartering to begin with then sat her down and walked off about 30 yds fired a shot, threw the dummy, got the dog to retrieve no problems. She didn't take a blind bit of notice of the shot or the gun...............happy days :( :good: will keep doing this for a couple of weeks and then try the real thing again, thanks for the advice Dan and all!