Techy question

[Pushkin]

Hi guys, hoping one of you can help me find out what is wrong with my broadband connection

 

Every night for about the last few weeks, I lose my connection to broadband for about 20 to 30 minutes. It is always round about 11 or 12 o clock this happens. An example was that I went to answer a thread on here at 11:15 tonight but couldn't - because the connection was lost and I didn't get it back until about 12:00 midnight. I have tried everything I can think of to sort this out, including switching off and booting up again but the connection just aint there (ADSL). I've run all the usual tests AV, F/W, trojan checker etc but nothing shows up - I even tried that rootkit - nowt!

 

For some reason, when I get the connection back, in my favourites column, all the HTTP links are greyed out - it is only the folders that are in full black print. If I open a folder that has further HTTP links in that - they are okay.

 

It's almost as if something was stealing the signal (end of the line, miles from the station and out in the country - so you can imagine 1 MGB is about as good as it gets {up to 8 MGBs my fat ****})

 

Anyone have any thoughts on what the problem might be?

 

Pushkin

[taz24]

Hi guys, hoping one of you can help me find out what is wrong with my broadband connection

 

Every night for about the last few weeks, I lose my connection to broadband for about 20 to 30 minutes. It is always round about 11 or 12 o clock this happens. An example was that I went to answer a thread on here at 11:15 tonight but couldn't - because the connection was lost and I didn't get it back until about 12:00 midnight. I have tried everything I can think of to sort this out, including switching off and booting up again but the connection just aint there (ADSL). I've run all the usual tests AV, F/W, trojan checker etc but nothing shows up - I even tried that rootkit - nowt!

 

For some reason, when I get the connection back, in my favourites column, all the HTTP links are greyed out - it is only the folders that are in full black print. If I open a folder that has further HTTP links in that - they are okay.

 

It's almost as if something was stealing the signal (end of the line, miles from the station and out in the country - so you can imagine 1 MGB is about as good as it gets {up to 8 MGBs my fat ****})

 

Anyone have any thoughts on what the problem might be?

 

Pushkin

 

 

Your antivirus software has'nt kicked in has it.

Or some other auto schedualed task that is timed to come on at 11 oclock?

 

Cheers taz

[Pushkin]

taz24 - excellent try Had to go and check that Only thing I have on a schedule is my AV and that runs at 8:00am when it is least likely to be disturbed. I was thinking more along the lines of soemone or something that draws the signal strenght away from me at the end of the line about the same time every night e.g. checking something before they go to bed or downloading something ona fairly regular basis??

 

Keep them coming folks.

 

Pushkin

[codling99]

could be your isp doing maintainance on the service?? tried ringing them about it??

[AdamC]

Can you think of any electrical goods that might be causing interference? You would be amazed at what can knock DSL connections out. My dad had a problem with his for ages. It turned out to a failing transformer for his CCTV up in the loft. Get a portable radio and tune it to Radio 4 LW. This is either a similar frequency to DSL or a harmonic of the DSL frequency. If you start picking up interference or white noise, that is your problem.

 

This is just one thing. I could be your telco doing maintenance, interference further down the line. Water in underground pipework. Router issue or PC issue.

 

The fact it is repeatable at similar times of day should make it easier to track. When you loose the internet, can you see if your router light is going nuts indicating something saturating the line?

[keston]

how far do you live from your telephone exchange

[pin]

What ADSL kit have you got? If you've a router there, or a decent modem, you'll probably be able to get some stats out of it which might help work out what's going wrong.

 

Post what make/model kit you have and I'll be able to tell you.

 

I have to say I don't understand what you mean when you say "HTTP links are greyed out" - I assume its something IE does that I don't know about.

 

The numbers you want out of the router are Attenuation and Noise Margin at the time it's happening, as well as the simple "is it synced or not" - you should be able to tell that from status led's on the ADSL kit you have - what they look like and how they indicate various errors depends very much on what kit it is.

[bob300w]

Sounds like overloading of your ISP, maybe your local supermarkets send their figures and orders through at this time? I have a similar problem around 0800 to 0830 most mornings.

[pin]

It wouldn't cause the ADSL to loose sync. Ordinary ADSL is contended, that means you are sharing your "up to 8meg" with anything up to 50 other people.

 

If it gets busy you'll just get slower and slower connections. If it gets congested enough you might get the symptoms of a dropped connection (Browser timeouts, application timeouts, msn dropping) but the ADSL line will still be synced, just unable to deliver or transmit IP within reasonable time frames.

 

There isn't enough info to do anything but speculate at the moment, if we can establish if the DSL is loosing Sync we will have chopped the issue in half. If it is doing it regularly every night at the same time it has to be something environmental.

[keston]

if you are losing "sink"-adsl light on router or usb modem starts flashing then there is a quick fix ,disconnect all your extn sockets -if you can and plug in direct with filter to main socket -but make sure all extn sockets are disconnected and not still part of circuit, this will cut down greatly on electro magnetic interference picked up through extn sockets . also make sure line is sounds clear when plugging a corded phone in ,any slight crackling means line fault which quite often affects the bb signal. iam a bb engineer for very well known company.

[keston]

could be any one of 20 reasons why you are losing sink in the evenings but a weak signal nearly always falls over in the evening -nothing to do with the isp .just concentrate on the fix,if you are on 8meg thats the best for you as its a veriable system and works the best it can at long range from the exchange .

[Pushkin]

Okay guys, here goes:-

 

The modem is a Thomson Speedtouch with two LEDs on the front, one for USB connection and one for ADSL. Green condition means everything’s okay as per usual. Red on the USB means no connection, flashing green on the ADSL means a loss of connection to the service – but it is still trying to make one for you. There is also amber states for both but I’m sure they are just alerting you to a possible problem.

 

From the diagnostics software I’m not sure what you need so here is everything:-

 

Connection tab

VPI VCI Type Encapsulation SDU Transmit SDU Received Tx SDU Size Rx SDU Size

0 38 PPPoA VCMUX 19471 15059 0 0

 

USB tab

 

Retry for both transmit and receive are at 0. The USB transfer mode is ticked for bulk and the bandwidth available is 10530.

 

ADSL tab

 

Line rate Kbps transmit is 288 and receive is 576. Modem type is ticked for POTS and mode ticked is GdmtA. Errors noted are loss of signal 1, loss of framing 1 Loss of link 0, errored seconds 1.

 

ATM tab

 

Bandwidth Kbps transmit 832 receive 8128. Cell count transmitted 65396 – received 285450, loopback 0 & invalid 1.

 

OAM tab

 

Nothing marked or showing with numbers.

 

AAL5 tab

 

SDU transmit 19471 Receive 15059. CRC errors 0, SDU length errors 1, SAR timeouts 0.

 

Version Tab

 

Tells me it is file version 301.0.0.12 and the hardware version is 36009680.

 

I Live some 6 miles away from the exchange - out in the sticks - in a small village. There is an amateur radio ham lives about 400 yards away from me with one of those enormous wind up ariel masts and he has been known to cause problems with TV and radio reception in the past but has always taken steps to sort that out very quickly. Even to the extent of saying there may be a bit of problems tonight as I'm trying some new gear.

 

We had some issues with the set up when first changed over from dial up and the BT guy came out (Free gratis as Virgin is the supplier) and checked everything out. He said we were actually getting a fairly good signal strength given the distance from the exchange. He altered something at the nearby wiring box and got one of the underground acccess points drained and everything was fine from then - until now.

 

Pushkin

[pin]

When was the modem last powered off pushkin?

 

I'd assume you leave it on normally? It's showing a loss of framing and a loss of sync (one each since reset) - I'd need to know the above to know if the number is significant or not.

 

You are a very long way away from the exchange and this is showing in your BRAS profile as very restrictive upload/download but the technology can deal with that (just).

 

It would be interesting to get the "ADSL tab" data after it's happened again to see what it was, Framing or Sync

[Pushkin]

Keston, tried that with disconnecting the 2 phones we have and going direct with the filter - no change. Ha ha that was what the BT guy said to try when I had the original problems.

 

Pin, the computer goes off each night at the base unit but not at the wall socket - will that mean the modem is still on?

 

I'll see if I can capture the diagnostics if it does it tonight again.

 

Cheers guys :blink:

 

Pushkin

[pin]

Yeah if the power is into the modem it will still try and stay Synced with the DSLAM at the other end, if it happens again get the info and we'll know roughly what we are dealing with.

 

My suspicion is interference causing this, the radio ham up the read is interesting but lets go through it logically, if it is indeed loosing Sync/Framing

 

Interesting this (nor for anyone else I'd guess) I wrote a paper on Mitigating EMI in high frequency digital networks some time ago, first real time it's come up :blink:

Edited February 27, 2008 by pin

[Pushkin]

So Pin, do you recommend that I power everything down and then power it up again to see if that does anything? Or wait and see what the stats give tonight if it does its usual?

 

Pushkin :blink:

[pin]

Leave as is, make sure you don't switch off the modem tonight and see what the ADSL page reports tomorrow. You say it happens every night around the same time?

[keston]

six miles ,a wonder it ever worked. when you said you dis-connected the other phones did you disconnect the extn wiring as well including all hard wired extns or it wont make a difference,if so could well be external radio interference, you might have to get on to your isp to arrange for a openreach engineer to look into it again.

[pin]

6 miles might be "as the crow flies".

 

rADSL can deal with that, just.

 

My problem with it being anything "physical" is the repeatability and time of the problem - physical problems can be odd but they don't often manifest at specific times on a repeatable basis.

 

If you have a situation like that my suspicion would be something external, hard to imagine how a cable could fault at the same time every day, but it can happen

[Pushkin]

Hi again guys - did it to me tonight again but a bit earlier 10:30 ish when the missus wanted to go on the web - oh my dear - says I - I'll have a look at it later then

 

Well I checked the diagnostics then and I then tried the phone line to see if it was clear - yep. Tried getting radio 4 on long wave on my portable radio - no go - no LW on radios nowadays!!!! Tried FM but it was okay as well. Because I couldn't get back on line - I tried what one of you suggested earlier in the day (Pin I think?) I powered down the whole set-up and then switched it all back on again - Success! Or is it just because it is now after 12:00?

 

Anyway, below are the stats of the modem before, during and after. See if they make any sense to you guys; all I've done is cut and paste the earlier stats and then added the consecutive ones below them in the order they appear.

 

Connection tab

VPI VCI Type Encapsulation SDU Transmit SDU Received Tx SDU Size Rx SDU Size

0 38 PPPoA VCMUX 19471 15059 0 0

0 38 same same 34675 19192 1430 1430

0 38 same same 0 0 1430 1430

 

USB tab

 

Retry for both transmit and receive are at 0. The USB transfer mode is ticked for bulk and the bandwidth available is 10530.

Same

Same

 

ADSL tab

 

Line rate Kbps transmit is 288 and receive is 576. Modem type is ticked for POTS and mode ticked is GdmtA. Errors noted are loss of signal 1, loss of framing 1 Loss of link 0, errored seconds 1.

12 12 4 12

1 1 0 1

 

ATM tab

 

Bandwidth Kbps transmit 832 receive 8128. Cell count transmitted 65396 – received 285450, loopback 0 & invalid 1.

Same

Same

 

OAM tab

 

Nothing marked or showing with numbers.

Same

Same

 

AAL5 tab

 

SDU transmit 19471 Receive 15059. CRC errors 0, SDU length errors 1, SAR timeouts 0.

34675 19192 5 3 0

0 0 0 0 0

 

I hope all these figures make some kind of sense to you guys? I can make a guess at some but the others have me stumped

 

Pin, what I was talking about the HTTP links being greyed out: On the left of my screen I have a column with my favourites on a list. Some of these links are merely folders with the normal folder symbol - you open the folder and there are more HTTP links - keeps it from becomeing an endless list to scroll down. Some of the more favourite sites like PW are just straight HTTP links like this: (Small icon a white V in a blue box) Pigeon Watch UK Forums - general banter. All the links that are folders are in normal black print but the other links sucha s PW are shown like this: Pigeon Watch UK Forums - general banter I was wondering if that is related to the above?

 

Sorry guys but I did correct the spacing before posting and then again after I had posted it. In my original it shows with all the numbers in the right places but not on the post itself

 

Pushkin B)

Edited February 28, 2008 by Pushkin

[pin]

Those figures were identical to the those first posted, which is odd.

 

Power off the modem, then on. As soon as it lets you take the same stats - just the "ADSL tab" is all I need.

[Pushkin]

Same figures for the adsl tab Pin after power off then on again?

 

Pushkin

[pin]

Yeah power it off and on again then wait for it to happen again then post.

 

Looks like it either A) wasn't working or didn't notice the last time it broke.

[Pushkin]

Pin - ADSL tab is now showing:-

 

Loss of signal 3

 

Loss of framing 3

 

loss of link 0

 

errored seconds 3.

 

When I first switched on the 3's were 2's (that was earlier on today.)

 

I'll wait and see if it acts up tonight again.

 

Pushkin

Edited February 28, 2008 by Pushkin

[pin]

Does look like it's physical, one of the things I'd suggest is something called an "RF Choke", essentially a rare earth coil which you put the cable going to your modem though in a loop, this will help reject the spurious interference I think is causing your issue.

 

I'd like to know more about when this happens, can you elaborate?