Question for bob300w

[Maiden22]

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Edited March 9, 2009 by Maiden22

[Big_Sam]

They are not really bores at all in the true sense.

 

It was just the number system they used. No. 3 garden gun is 9mm.

[bob300w]

Hi Maiden22

The 1,2,3 bore nomenclature, although commonly used, is not really correct, the correct terminology is No1, No2 and No3 shot or long shot and probably comes from the fact that these originated in European countries as 6, 7 and 9mm. Us being British decided to re-name them in an English fashion, No.'s 1,2 and 3 . (Just my theory.)

These were commonly rimfire, although Eley were loading 7 and 9mm centre-fire shot cartridges just before WW2, oddly the centre-fire rounds retained their metric titles.

 

In true bore terminology, a 9mm (No3) is a 105 bore, a 7mm (No2), is a 223 bore, and a 6mm (No1) is a 353 bore.

 

Confused enough yet? Just to add to the chaos, Air rifle manufacturers named 177 pellets No1's and 22 pellets No2.

 

The four bore rifles that you refer to were one inch bore rifled guns firing a 4 oz lead bullet, often with explosive heads. These were Black powder loaded, when cordite was invented, these fell out of favour as higher velocities were available enabling smaller bullets to be used with the same effect, and lighter guns.

Typical 4 bore rifles weighed 20 to 25 pounds, the usual black powder charge was 12 to 14 drams, (325 to 380 grains) and muzzle velocity was 1,300 to 1,500 FPS, not a lot by modern standards, but with a four once bullet, it's a fair clout!

 

If I am as smart as I kid myself that I am, I will get a photo of a 4 bore rifle cartridge with a 4oz bullet on here later.

 

If you are a collector Maiden, PM me and I will send you a copy of the 1936 Eley-Kynoch (ICI) catalogue pages with the No1,2 and 3 cartridges detailed.

[Harnser]

Well done bob ,that was interesting . Harnser .

[bob300w]

Cracked it! 3 different No1's a No2 centre fire, and a No3 garden gun round, with a 4 bore rifle cartridge, and a 12g to give an indication of size.

 

[Maiden22]

Thanks Bob, very informative reply as usual .

 

Not a collector, just wondered about the odd naming, and am interested in the history of firearms in general.

 

Would be interesting to see a 4 bore if you can get the pics on. At 25lbs, that must have been a tiring day's shooting! Do you know if it was elephants that they were used for?

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. Very interesting .

 

Robert.

 

Edit: Sorry, was a bit slow, didn't see that you'd already posted the pics. Wow! Wouldn't fancy firing that!

Edited April 21, 2008 by Maiden22

[tinbum71]

Just to be nerdy........

 

The bore size depicts the fraction of a pound lead ball that could roll down the barrel. Ie 4 bore=1/4lb ball, 12 bore=1/12lb ball etc.

 

Of no use in the modern world, but sorta interesting.

[bob300w]

Thanks Bob, very informative reply as usual .

 

Not a collector, just wondered about the odd naming, and am interested in the history of firearms in general.

 

Would be interesting to see a 4 bore if you can get the pics on. At 25lbs, that must have been a tiring day's shooting! Do you know if it was elephants that they were used for?

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. Very interesting .

 

Robert.

 

Edit: Sorry, was a bit slow, didn't see that you'd already posted the pics. Wow! Wouldn't fancy firing that!

No, not tiring at all, you had native bearers to carry everything! The weight given was for a double rifle.

My 4 bore single shotgun weighs 12 1/2 lbs, that's heavy enough to cart across saltings.

I'll have a look, and see if I can find some pics.

 

What tinbum is saying, is that to get the bore of a gun, you take a round lead ball that fits the bore, and the number of those size balls that make up a pound in weight is the bore. Hence if one .729" ball fits the bore, then 12 of these will weigh one pound, the gun is therefore a 12 bore, or as our American brothers (you can't choose your relations) would say, a 12 gauge. S'truth, that's easy to understand, but difficult to explain!