Quist Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 First let me say I'm not a lawyer and this post is purely my understanding of the position. Ever since the Wildlife and Countryside Act Schedule 2 Part 2 list came into being, there seems to have been confusion over the circumstances pest birds can be shot under. There's an assumption, sometimes seen in posts on here, that all pests including pest birds are vermin and all vermin can be shot under almost any circumstances. Vermin is a very vague term in law and can mean everything from Body lice to Foxes. In the context of shooting, Police forces seem to take the view that Vermin are Rats, Rabbits, Foxes & Grey Squirrels only. No birds then are "Vermin" or are considered vermin under FAC license conditions and all of them fall under the terms of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and subsequent orders. Schedule 2 part 2 of that act lists species which can be pests in certain circumstances. Control of those pests can be carried out under specific conditions. Control of all pest birds therefore falls under the terms of the General licenses now issued by Natural England. There are specific licenses issued by them depending on conditions such as Air Safety or Fishery protection. So when you come to shoot birds other than game birds or wildfowl in season, you are shooting under the terms of a general license only. There is no separate "back-door" vermin control law you can rely on. Please make yourself familiar with its terms and please ensure that you can demonstrate compliance with it. Otherwise you are putting the sport we all love at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 No birds then are "Vermin" or are considered vermin under FAC license conditions and all of them fall under the terms of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and subsequent orders. Schedule 2 part 2 of that act lists species which can be pests in certain circumstances. Control of those pests can be carried out under specific conditions firearms departments can and do list avian vermin if you request it as a condition on your fac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted May 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Quite possibly but..........no trumps! The Wildlife a Countryside Act is the primary law governing what you can shoot, where etc. Getting your FO to include pest birds as vermin doesn't change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) Quist Well my licensing manager classes pest birds as vermin, he must read the same dictionary as me. See ( below. I am just waiting for him to confirm authority for (2) see below.........offensive people. However I presume I will need one of your general licenses aswell but I cant for the life of me see where offensive people are listed. vermin Main Entry: ver·min Listen to the pronunciation of vermin Pronunciation: \ˈvər-mən\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural vermin Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French vermin, vermine, from verm worm, from Latin vermis Date: 14th century 1 a: small common harmful or objectionable animals (as lice or fleas) that are difficult to control b: birds and mammals that prey on game c: animals that at a particular time and place compete (as for food) with humans or domestic animals 2: an offensive person Charlie Edited May 23, 2008 by CharlieT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 CharlieT By your reasoning albeit 14th century does that mean that all birds of prey are vermin and may be shot? It was my understanding that ALL wild birds are protected and we are allowed to shoot the ones on the quarry list and the ones covered by the general licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) CharlieT By your reasoning albeit 14th century does that mean that all birds of prey are vermin and may be shot? It was my understanding that ALL wild birds are protected and we are allowed to shoot the ones on the quarry list and the ones covered by the general licence. I rather think that you have missed the subtle fun of my post. Any way.........the topic is about what is legal, feo's interpretation of vermin and the general license. Where, pray tell me, did I suggest or made the slightest reference to birds of pray being legal quarry under the term vermin on ones fac. Oh and while I'm at, your it silly little shaking heads were not called for. Edited May 23, 2008 by CharlieT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) CharlieT By your reasoning albeit 14th century does that mean that all birds of prey are vermin and may be shot? :o It was my understanding that ALL wild birds are protected and we are allowed to shoot the ones on the quarry list and the ones covered by the general licence. Where, pray tell me, did I suggest or made the slightest reference to birds of pray being legal quarry under the term vermin on ones fac. b: birds and mammals that prey on game Edited May 23, 2008 by codling99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trollhunter Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Oh and while I'm at, your it silly little shaking heads were not called for. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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