Scope Question

[PTaylor2k4]

Getting a new scope for my new springer, it's probably going to be a hawke but i was wondering, if i got one with a 50mm dia. which i was going to get would this be better than say a 44mm because i'd have to get 56mm mounts for the bigger scope so would this effect how much more i would have to aim up or down depending the distace of my target and what distance my scope was zeroed at? if i got the 44mm scope i could get 45mm mounts, but the gun i want will have open sights staying on it so would they show up when i look through my scope?

 

here is a pic of the gun:

 

http://www.xjsr.co.uk/img/Air%20Rifles/gamo_shadow1000.jpg

 

if that makes any sense to you and you can give me advice or tell me i'm worrying about nothing please do so

 

basically does the size or your mounts effect your performance and will my open sights show in my scope if i got a 44mm scope with 45mm mounts?

 

:o

[oddbob]

Yes and no to all your questions there!

It depends very much upon the mag of the scope as far as the open sights are concerned, if the scope zooms down to 1.5-2.5x, you will most certainly be aware of them, but even then, they will not obscure the target.

The higher you mount a scope from the bore line, the more critical alignment and cant become. Cant is best described as the angle you hold the rifle in relation to an imaginary vertical line in front of you. Alignment can be how far to the left or the right the centre line of the scope is to the bore of the rifle. And at the risk of worrying you more, you have to ensure the crosshairs are vertical in relation to the bore of the barrel!

But don't worry, there are many ways to ensure you get all these right.

Once set up correctly, having a high mounted scope has a long range advantage, it effectively flattens the trajectory of the pellet at longer ranges. The downside is that you have to aim off more at close range, and also you will probably have to lift your head higher to see through the scope, and this can lead to parallax errors.

If you intend to use the rifle for hunting, I would go for the 44mm objective.

For scopes and scope mounts I would highly recomend this site;

http://www.opticswarehouse.com/acatalog/Te...pic_Sights.html

Their price on the Sportsmatch one piece adjustable is the best I've found.

[PTaylor2k4]

lol i get ya, i worked it out with a simple drawing in paint...

 

but how do you make sure your scope is aligned right, so its vertical to the barrel.

 

i emailed that place about a hawke nite-eye 3-9x50 ir with free mounts, delivery and butler creek flip ups to see if they would let me 'upgrade' to a sportsmatch dampa mount

 

only 19.95 with a hawke scope! hope they say i can :o

[BOLTA]

lol

 

but how do you make sure your scope is aligned right, so its vertical to the barrel.

Hi there,

 

You can get a special tool for this called Vertical Reticle Tool from Long Shot Products. This is one of the best tools I have found, if not the best, for straighting up any scopes on any rifles to be complete straight and in angle.

 

Another thing strikes me. Are you aware of the ring alignment of the scope mounts ? I mean you are going to either lap your lower ring halfs with a lapbar or use the epoxy methode, right ?

If you don´t take this ring alignment in consideration you will bend your scope then mounting it or you can permanent bend the scope !

 

Cheers - Bolta

[PTaylor2k4]

i didnt understand that last bit m8,

 

the last scope i had was a tasco 2.5-10x42 on my lightning, i just whacked it on till it looked ok and zeroed it in,

 

:o

[the last engineer]

what he means is

 

the two mounts may not be the same height when fitted to the gun.

 

the lap bar is to REAM/LAP the two holes to align them and remove the error .

 

if this is not done the possible damage to the scope tube could be permanent.

 

hope that made sence ,and good luck :o

 

 

Martin

[1 of 5]

As a rule the Hawke 50mm glass is inferior to the 44mm jobbies. Then again most Hawke products are fairly poor. If you can run to a basic Bushnell you'll get a far better scope for your money.

[PTaylor2k4]

where can i get a lap bar from?

 

i'll take a look at a bushnell then

[PTaylor2k4]

bloody hell there a bit more expensive

 

http://www.opticswarehouse.com/acatalog/co...ell_Scopes.html

 

from £64.95 - £69.95 for a 3-9x40

 

is that better than say a hawke nite-eye 3-9x50 ir on the same site for £95 with free mounts?

 

advise me, oh and this is going on a gamo shadow 1000 so is it worth it lol

 

although i hear peoples scopes slide off alot on them

[BOLTA]

Hi,

 

Lapbars can easy be bought from the US. Sinclair International sells them and perhaps Midway too plus probably many others sell them. Have a search on Google or similar search machines for information about lapbars and lapping of scope rings.

 

Cheers - Bolta

[oddbob]

I wouldn't worry too much about the rings being out on a one piece mount, it can happen but is rare with known companies such as Sportsmatch.

Nick Jenkinson used a 1" aluminium bar to lap his mounts, apparently he was a pretty good shot and won a title or two, so it must have worked.

But back to the alignment question.

You can buy some good cheap scope alignment tools, such as this one;

http://www.segway-industries.com/ available from Jackson Rifles, or this;

http://www.stoneypoint.com/sight_lines_index.html from The Sportsmans Gun Centre (adverts in Gun Mart),

or try this if on a budget.

Get a workmate type table and get it totally level using a spirit level, somewhere suitable such as the top of your garden. You need to be able to gently clamp your rifle level in this. Get the spirit level and mount it 'downrange' of the rifle, where it can be viewed through the scope when you fit it, at around the same height.

Mount the scope and mounts just loose enough to be able to move them about, then view the spirit level through the scope and see if the horizontal cross hairs are level. Gently nip the screws up, checking nothing shifts as you go round them.

Does the Shadow not have a recoil arrestor block screwed to the end of the scoperails? If you are having problems with scope creep, or to prevent them, make sure you de-grease both the rails and the dovetails on the mounts before you assemble them. Some people use a little clear nail varnish or a drop of thread-lock in the grooves too. Hope that makes sense?

[roblade]

hi mate,

 

never heard of a lap bar or one being used on airguns. would imagien they are aimed (pun intended) at the more expensive scopes that was comon variety airgunnners can only dream of mounting (once we get FAC .22-250 LOL)

 

when it comes to scopes just look back through old air gun mags and look what was on offer. (or more the prices they were) my personal opinion is that in adding things like mil-dot, P/A and I/R the quality of the lenses has had to suffer to keep the price realistic.

 

unless you really, REALLY want an illuminated reticle would think it better to opt for the most basic scope offering the best value for money.

 

i have tried tasco, hawke and bushnell. (though never mil-dot)

 

and at the moment i have a bushnell trophy 3-9x40 30/30 ret fitted to a TX200 MK1

 

just ask yourself questions the following questions:

 

do you need P/A (are you going to be shooting at variouse ranges where it is vital to know the exact distance?)

 

if yes

 

high mag scope (to get the best from P/A)

 

if no

 

would mil-dots be best use for allowing hold over/under/windage

 

 

am i going to be shooting at dusk or dawn or any low light situation?

 

if yes

 

first priority would be a nice big objective lens to allows as much light as possible in at the highest possible magnification.

 

illuminated reticle would be advantageouse

 

if no

 

to make the best of all light a decent 40 or if need be a 50mm objective lens.

 

remeber every feature you buy on a scope has to be paid for:lenses/PA/IR/Mill-dots.

 

go for the best scope you need not the one that is cosmetically pleasing.

 

I have even heard of cheaper scopes zeroed on (e.g)6x mag then set to 20x mag and the zero has shifted!!!!

 

ROB

 

PS if you can afford ti check out the sales section there a bloody decent 6.5-20x50 WTC18 on there!!!! if it will clear the breach on the rifle and you can hold it steady enough (i couldnt so sold my one) you really cant beat the quality for the price the guy is asking (paid a lot more than that for mine second hand!!!!)

[BOLTA]

Hi,

 

Always be aware of the ring alignment of any scope mount !!!

 

Some of the one piece mount is made in aluminium and do you really think that such piece of metal can stiff the area where the mounts are mounted ? Then you tighten the screws in the mount you will bend the mount slightly over the action and your rings will be out of alignment !

 

People that don´t take this problem in consideration will bend their scope then they mount them without knowing it !

And it doesn´t matter if the scope is being mounted to an airgun, rimfire or centrefire rifle - the problem will still be there and should be dealt with.

 

Cheers - Bolta

[PTaylor2k4]

That doesnt make much sense

 

so should i use a lap bar in the mounts first or not?

 

this is for sportsmatch 2 piece mounts but would it make a difference if i had a 1 piece mount?

[roblade]

its possible what bolta says might happen, though very very unlikly. (like i said have never heard of it happening, or damaging a scope!!!!)

 

i chop and change my scopes/mounts almost as much as i change my socks, the only scope i had to mess about with a little wasbushnell trophy m,ounted on gunpower stealth all the needed was a little shim to give slight bit more elevation

 

 

i really wouldnt worry too much about a lap bar try the scope out get it zeroed and get the pigeons!!!!

 

rob

[PTaylor2k4]

its possible what bolta says might happen, though very very unlikly. (like i said have never heard of it happening, or damaging a scope!!!!)

 

i chop and change my scopes/mounts almost as much as i change my socks, the only scope i had to mess about with a little wasbushnell trophy m,ounted on gunpower stealth all the needed was a little shim to give slight bit more elevation

 

 

i really wouldnt worry too much about a lap bar try the scope out get it zeroed and get the pigeons!!!!

 

rob

will do!

[oddbob]

Bolta is right to say that misaligned rings will damage a scope, so it is certainly worth checking for alignment by placing the bases on the rail and nipping the clamps up, minus the caps. Then place the scope in the cradle and look to see if it looks to be visibly OK. Don't wave the rifle about, or you will end up in a drawn out argument with your insurance company. But that's another story.......

With two piece mounts I like to slide both of them together on the rail to see if they look OK first.

Just out of interest, turn one of them round. You will see it's now out of alignment by a couple of mm.