IAN88 Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 have a FAC land i shoot on has large crow problem ,do you thick i can apply for saiga 12 ,or just apply for nova pump or are they strictly for range shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) fac shot gun is only for shotguns that can take more than 3 carts mate Edited October 14, 2008 by winchester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I have both multi shot pump and semi auto for both vermin control and club use. that is also how you should apply there is no requirement to name the make of gun wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAN88 Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 do they do this in 3shot ? only seen 5 upwards ithink you can get them 10plus with wright mag website says FAC must say 12g semi auto and theres a dealer in warkshire ? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 these saiga 12's are minimum 5 shot mags so need to be on fac. there are far better guns out there than these pressed sheet steel ak variants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAN88 Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 What would you recommend ? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) What would you recommend ? cheers Anything really. I've fired a few saiga's before, and as much fun as it is to fire of 10 cartridges, and then replace the mag, the fun get's old far to quick and you soon realise that you are firing a horrible, heavy gun. Yes, I'm sure it's very good for lugging around a building if your law enforcement, but for all the swinging and quick mounting you will be wanting to do with a sporting gun, you can't pull off with a sagia, they are too big, heavy, and awkward. I'd recommend any semi you get on with now, and see if you can get a new cartridge tube for it, maybe even an extention. Edited October 14, 2008 by Bleeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) Ian I know you have contacted me in the past regarding practical shotgun & I see many people (read armchair commando's) who want this type of shotgun simply because it looks the way it does, the saiga has a detachable magazine so cannot be owned on section 2 certificates, it is popular in russia & parts of europe but has a much smaller following here, the Vepr is actually a better version & the one most commonly used in Germany, they attract adverse attention because they look like an AK47 but I guarantee you wont win anything with it at a PSG match, they shoot ok but are actually slower to use than regular tube fed guns in competition, in fact I would be happy to prove it to you if you buy one. Im not sure what the local plod would make of you wanting one for vermin when there are much less agressive looking & more suitable guns out there if you only plan to vermin shoot. Its a gun for competition so long as you dont mind being beat & are more concerned with the way you look than how far up the score board you are. I would say get either a Benelli M2 field in auto or a Supernova if a pump floats your boat, tough, strong, & with re-sale value should you decide they are not for you. they are currently used by all the top IPSC competitors in the world. N Edited October 14, 2008 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I wouldn't get a Saiga for field use. I've never used one but the layout of the gun looks useless for bird shooting. I suggest you look at a Benelli auto or pump, or even a Remmy 870 if you want something that's been in every action film ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernlad Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Looks like a nutter gun to me. Wouldn't want to be seen with one myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Looks like a nutter gun to me. Wouldn't want to be seen with one myself! Southlad Some would argue that if you own any gun for the purpose of killing things you are just as much of a nutter ! This gun has a legitimate use in practical target shooting competitions & does not fit the welly & tweed image of rough shooting, however it does not make you a nutter if you plan to use it for what its supposed to be used for, when will the shooters of this country ever learn to except one another as allies instead of being quick to slag off something they have never tried themselves or cant be bothered to find out about simply because they have no interest in it. A shooter is a shooter in my eyes & we should stand together. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAN88 Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 because i want one i like all types of guns air rifles,50 cals, gatling guns,this does not make me a nutter if so why did they give me a fac ticket , in the states i could have pretty much what i want .but we live in a nanny state . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 because i want one i like all types of guns air rifles,50 cals, gatling guns,this does not make me a nutter if so why did they give me a fac ticket ,in the states i could have pretty much what i want .but we live in a nanny state . Just because the Yanks allow everybody to run around like Rambo doesn't mean it's right. I can't think of a sensible reason why the authorities would want to license anybody to hold military weapons. They were designed for killing large numbers of people in a fairly short space of time, and I would have to ask why anybody would want one for anything other than standing in front of a mirror. I can see the argument for all shooting sports to stand together, but quite frankly, there are some things I would prefer to be distanced from as far as possible. When push comes to shove, I don't want to be judged alongside grown men playing war. The public don't understand, the law doesn't understand and neither do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) because i want one i like all types of guns air rifles,50 cals, gatling guns,this does not make me a nutter if so why did they give me a fac ticket ,in the states i could have pretty much what i want .but we live in a nanny state . I can't think of a sensible reason why the authorities would want to license anybody to hold military weapons. They were designed for killing large numbers of people in a fairly short space of time, and I would have to ask why anybody would want one for anything other than standing in front of a mirror. Chard I do share your concern over the image we as shooters portray to the none shooting public but do you really think they care about one gun being more mean looking than another ? to them a gun is a gun is a gun & they should all be banned !!! With your reasoning I assume your including all Lee Enfield rifles within that statement, after all at one time it was the cutting edge of military rifles, and you cant see why anyone would want one right ? No wait just cos its old that makes it a lot less dangerous right ? In my experiance game & rough shooters dont always see beyond there box & do not regard target shooting as anything worthwhile, an interest in a certain type of firearm does not make anyone a nutter, to my mind it is way harder to defend the killing of animals for sport to the public, especially as you yourself seem to be dangling rabbits between your legs in your profile picture I think a lot of shooters who choose game shooting are quick to put down target shooters in an attempt to distract attention from what they do & make it seem justified somehow. I would like to make it clear I have shot on rough shoots & can see both sides of this, Im just passing coment on observations I have made over the years I have been shooting. We need to support each other against the true threat to shooting in this country instead of back biting & looking down our noses at one another over the kinds of firearms we find interesting. N Edited October 16, 2008 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 because i want one i like all types of guns air rifles,50 cals, gatling guns,this does not make me a nutter if so why did they give me a fac ticket ,in the states i could have pretty much what i want .but we live in a nanny state . Just because the Yanks allow everybody to run around like Rambo doesn't mean it's right. I can't think of a sensible reason why the authorities would want to license anybody to hold military weapons. They were designed for killing large numbers of people in a fairly short space of time, and I would have to ask why anybody would want one for anything other than standing in front of a mirror. I can see the argument for all shooting sports to stand together, but quite frankly, there are some things I would prefer to be distanced from as far as possible. When push comes to shove, I don't want to be judged alongside grown men playing war. The public don't understand, the law doesn't understand and neither do I. Gee, I must be doing something wrong then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Neil, I have a Mossy 500 in 3 shot which has turned out to be one of the best shotguns I have bought - cheap, robust and absolutely does the job. However the key reason the Mossy works for me is because I stuck a different barrel on it - it was a spare barrel the gun shop had lying around on the floor (I think it's a Winchester or Remington multichoke) and it so happened that it was a perfect marry up for the Mossy - the sight picture down the rib / barrel is flat, with the bead on the end - just like any sporting shotgun. The quandry I have is that I need something for solid slugs on wild boar this November. I was going to use the Extrema2 (low recoil, 9 shot and easy to get on with) but the advice from BASC is take something that will guarantee you a second shot - either an O/U or SBS (that will take an industrial magnum load) or even still a pump. I get on with the Mossy but the solid slug barrel that came with the gun has a nasty sight picture (for me anyway) and firing a magnum load will probably rattle my teeth out. So then, recommend me a pump. Also I notice that from a google search most pumps have been "pimped" with all manner of stick on bits - what do these do and do they work? For example - I dunno what flavour pump this is but nice flat rib and red dot sight, it would seem ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) Hi Mungler Looks like a Winchester 1200 or 1300 to me which is probably one of the best pump guns ever made & a good choice, ther are quite a few on the PSG circuit. A pump does not always guarantee a reliable second shot, under the time pressure of competition which is not unlike a situation you may encounter I have seen countless "short stokes" by shooters who were rushing to get another shot off, the end result is either an empty chamber or a jam. I run a Benelli M2 & would bet my life on it working every time, there is a trick to the way you lube this gun however & what you lube it with is just as important, I have not had a stoppage with it ever in the last 2 years. I feel that under pressure (with a wounded boar coming at you) I would choose a reliable semi auto over a pump everytime. In my experience the Extrema 2 is a good auto & I dont see many having problems around the shotgun circuit, with slug they seem as reliable as a Benelli, have you shot slug through your gun ? From my match experience slug tend to cause more lead fouling around the gas piston area on all gas guns, (Remington & Browning Gold especially) you may want to clean the gun more in that area if you are planing to shoot slug over several days hunting. At the last Euro's in 2006 a group of us took an Extrema 2 after the match & used it to burn off the ammo we could not ship home, we continually shot it until it finally started jamming, we shot a mix of slug bird & buckshot, I was impressed with how well it did, it was so hot by the end you couldn't hold it. Clean your gun well around the gas port & piston & lube it properly & it should be fine, its also cheaper than buying another gun. If you must have a pump then I can only recomend a Benelli Supernova they put everything else in the shade, they are as tough as old boots, most stick on bits & accesories for shotguns are a waste of money, one usefull exception is the velcro ammo carriers that attach to the side of the forend just in front of the ejection port to hold 2 spare shells, its called a "slide lock 2 pack" carrier but in competition speak they are known as Oh **** carriers because they are usefull to grab a quick shell when you shoot the gun dry "bolt locked back" & need a fast single reload, I dont use one but many do & I think it would be usefull for hunting because you could also carry different ammo in it, to that which is in the chamber just in case you wanted to switch quickly. http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p...e_Lock_Two_Pack I also load from these http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/Pro...+SPEED+STRIPPER fitted to a wide belt, you grab four shells at a time with your weak hand & while holding the gun in the shoulder with the strong arm you load all four one after the other. This is Kurt he is a top 3 gun competition shooter & a friend of mine in the states, he uses 6's I like the 4's. this is a practice drill used to improve reloading speed, shoot 1 plate reload 8 rounds & shoot a second plate. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7C0hPICnXk N Edited October 17, 2008 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernlad Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Err... just to set the record straight, I haven't called anyone a nutter! I said it looks like a nutter gun (probably poor choice of words, apologies) and by that I mean it looks very macho and military and therefore of dubious sporting use and more for posing. It has also been mentioned further up the thread that this weapon is no match for other semi's and pumps for the purpose of PSG. I'm not a stuffy side-by-side only type, I just feel that military weapons are designed to kill PEOPLE (and are seen to do so in numerous movies), and therefore evoke more fear and negative reaction from members of the public, possibly to the detriment of sporting shooting in general. Each to his own, but I'm entitled to an opinion! I thank you. SL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Err... just to set the record straight, I haven't called anyone a nutter! I said it looks like a nutter gun (probably poor choice of words, apologies) and by that I mean it looks very macho and military and therefore of dubious sporting use and more for posing. I'm not a stuffy side-by-side only type, I just feel that military weapons are designed to kill PEOPLE Each to his own, but I'm entitled to an opinion! I thank you. SL Southlad I do not wish to get into a war of words but I suspect you do most of your shooting on game or rough shoots & not on range or target based shooting sports, thousands of shooters in this country use military rifles & shotguns for the legal sport of target shooting so they cannot be of a dubious sporting nature at all as you claim, the police must be satisfied as to the sporting use so why are you not so understanding ? Is it just a case that you have not been shooting at those venues to meet target shooters with these rifles, if so does that give you the right to judge what is or is not a sporting firearm in this country ? A gun of any type will kill people regardless of what its original purpose was, you can use much larger calibre rifles today for game shooting than most "military" calibre rifles so which is the more dangerous ? The truth is you probably just dont like the way it looks & dont think anyone should have one out of ignorance, you have a right to that opinion of course thats democracy but please be up front about it so we can judge if you are worth listening to ! N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAN88 Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Total agree with everything you say neil regarding the use of guns for target shooting what ever there original purpose i,ve done both target and rough shooting but much prefer to kill a paper or card target as i,m trying different aspects of shooting i,m being d rawn towards target shooting i,m hoping to contact the lads at offa,s dyke club in the very near future joined border gunz but things went hectic my end and the distance has made it a bit difficult as my time is limited of a weekend cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernlad Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Neil, Sorry fella but when have I not been upfront? I've made my OPINION clear from the beginning. As I said, each to their own and I'm not judging anyone for wanting to partake in any particular shooting sport. All I'm saying is that I PERSONALLY would wish to distance myself from this type of gun as it is essentially (and very loudly announces itself as) an assault weapon, designed for war. Sorry if that sounds 'ignorant' to you. That it's also by all accounts complete rubbish to shoot would also seem to negate it as a sporting weapon for PSG or vermin control. I admit my very first post was a bit misjudged and I've tried to explain myself, but I haven't got shirty about anyone elses posts on this thread and I haven't attacked your opinions, so why are you getting so peeved? Jeez. SL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Southlad I will agree to disagree with you, we share vastly opposing views of what should be acceptable, I have the opinion that if you are fit to hold an FAC you should be allowed to hold any firearm be it pistol rifle or shotgun without exception. I never said the saiga is terrible to shoot I just said you would get beat using one for PSG, the box mags are slower to get in because they need to be rocked into place & with the bolt closed this can be very difficult, it is made harder by the fact this gun has no last round hold open device & so leaves you with a closed bolt on an empty chamber every time slowing you down thats all, they are accurate though, this has meant they are popular for target shotgun slug events held at Bisley where skittles & other moving targets are used with no competitor movement all against the clock. Your opinion of what is suitable would seem to be at odd's with the majority of target shooters in this country who shoot one form of military rifle or another, I hope you would not expect them in turn to support you should you ever need it. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernlad Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 "I see many people (read armchair commando's) who want this type of shotgun simply because it looks the way it does" "Im not sure what the local plod would make of you wanting one for vermin when there are much less agressive looking & more suitable guns out there if you only plan to vermin shoot." Your words, not mine Neil. That just about sums up what I think about this, so where do our views differ so much? You shoot, I shoot, we both have something to lose. In what way does someone walking around in the countryside shooting crows with an assault weapon designed for CQC reflect positively on the shooting community? Not trying to get your back up mate, just using a bit of common sense. If you need reminding why automatic centrefires and handguns were banned and why multi-shot shotguns were reclassified and restricted, check out this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre He was a legal certificate holder by the way. SL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 The whole military vs. sporting gun debate is ridiculous. They all function the same, so what's the problem? You need to educate the public. I for one refuse to cater my hobby around their ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay222 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Not trying to get your back up mate, just using a bit of common sense. If you need reminding why automatic centrefires and handguns were banned and why multi-shot shotguns were reclassified and restricted, check out this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre He was a legal certificate holder by the way. SL not wanting to get involved in this argument, but following on from that link it really is a shame that one idiot can ruin something for so many people. after all the amount of drink driving accidents we have in this country and ive never heard anyone calling for a ban on driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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