Scully Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Scully I sugest you contact the Somerlayton Estate and the past owners of the gun club ( the clay shoot closed back in the 1970s ) for the full details. At one time it was one of the most important clay grounds in the country hosting the UK and Shooting Times championships. I used to live very close to it when it was active. I don't need to; you made the claim, not me. I'm assuming you have no link then, to the lead poisoned rabbits or hares? Nor under whose authority the sale ban was, nor your claim that 'the public agrees with them' ? Its a pity you cant view the subject with an open mind. Still if you keep your head deep enough in the sand you will not know when shooting has been banned because shooters were not flexable enough to move with the times. I have an extremely open mind, which is why I question everything. My mind has never been closed to the fact that steel can perform, with provisos, ( I use it for all my duck shooting) nor , and more importantly, that there are several very interested parties with an agenda to pursue, and if you believe that all shooters acceptance of steel will prevent them pursuing that agenda or the banning of shooting then you're deluded frankly. Are you not aware nor asked yourself why two european countries have now overturned their respective lead shot bans and the EU in general appear to be losing interest in the issue through doubt as to the amount of evidence, not of its toxicity but to the level of that effect. Have any tests been carried out to see what the effect of force feeding directly into the gizzard of steel shot, tungsten matrix, bismuth etc, has on wildfowl? It's not a question of moving with the times, but one of questioning the honesty and integrity of those who would interfere with our shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 After much pontificating on the subject, my opinion is: I know steel works, but I don't want lead being banned on dubious evidence as the same will inevitably happen to steel - then we'll have no cost-effective alternative, and that will be an end to shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 After much pontificating on the subject, my opinion is: I know steel works, but I don't want lead being banned on dubious evidence as the same will inevitably happen to steel - then we'll have no cost-effective alternative, and that will be an end to shooting. You have just realised the grand plan! Well done sir for you have mastered the riddle.Now enjoy your reward, a free mind, free from expert influence and control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Underdog, I wouldn't mind having to use steel all the time (as I have done by choice in the past) if there were multiple examples of current, UK based, peer-reviewed and conclusive evidence of lead shot deposits actually poisoning wildfowl in significant numbers, or harming human health from ingestion. But there ain't. If there is real concern over wildfowl poisoning, and I know that many PW members feel that there is, then in theory the the law in Scotland is tolerable, but the situation in England/Wales in ridiculous. I agree with Anser2 that one of the areas most polluted with lead shot deposits would be a clay-shooting ground, where the lead falls in concentrated areas and is not consumed by tides or agriculture. In my experience, steel works really well in terms of speed and killing power - I usually avoid shooting at anything over 50 yards with steel or lead and I can honestly say that I have had a very, very small rate of wounding with standard steel - less than with cheap lead cartridges, in fact. I didn't change chokes, I just bought the first steel cartridges I found and they were great. Perhaps I was lucky, but the combination of Express steel 24g 4s through the fixed 1/4 & 3/4 chokes in my 20 bore Medalist worked a treat. It just gets my back up that certain shooters go out of their way to tell us how bad steel is, when those who use it know it works! Lead being the best doesn't mean steel is the worst. But, if I owned a thin-walled or damascus-barrelled gun I would not use steel cartridges. If I was due for a lot of inland duck/goose shooting, I would certainly look at buying a gun which would be capable of handling standard steel - there are loads of cheap modern guns about that are perfectly safe to use with standard steel cartridges. If I was doing a lot of wildfowling, then I'd be getting a modern HP steel proofed gun. There are loads of these about too, at reasonable prices - and not just semi autos, there are side-by-side magnums, too. If I was doing a duck drive or flight as part of a driven game shoot then I'd probably use bismuth in the thin-walled/damascus-barrelled gun. If you want to shoot wildfowl or waders, there's no point in pining for lead, you may as well be pragmatic and make some sort of change. In the meantime, BASC & the CA should be fighting to bring us into line with Scotland - at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Good points RossEM. Let's just see how the ifs get checked! So far the ifs are being presumed somewhat. The niggle for me is, in my view, far worse things other than lead shot are far more damaging to all sorts of wildlife. Also lead has been around and still is around human activity for centuries enter we don't seem to be getting less! And again, far worse compounds do us more harm that are also still used all around us! The next thought therefore arises that all this is prejudice to the average shooter like me. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Good points RossEM. Let's just see how the ifs get checked! So far the ifs are being presumed somewhat. The niggle for me is, in my view, far worse things other than lead shot are far more damaging to all sorts of wildlife. Also lead has been around and still is around human activity for centuries enter we don't seem to be getting less! And again, far worse compounds do us more harm that are also still used all around us! The next thought therefore arises that all this is prejudice to the average shooter like me. U. Definitely, I forget who it was now but a PW member pointed out that there's a lot of unexploded ordnance in British estuaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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