Santlache

Nice looking dogs. Dizzy as hell but I've always had a soft spot for a Boxer The "Just eat it up" comment made me laugh and reminded me of a friend of mine's Patterdale - Whenever he went ratting he would dive in and kill a rat immediately, but wouldn't let go of it as he didn't want any of the other dogs getting it. In the end he used to start eating it Cheers

Afternoon all. I've been toying with the idea for a while now about getting a .410, especially as I've had such fun with them in the past whenever I've done a bit of rough shooting with one. I was in my local gun shop today picking up some carts when I asked if he'd seen seen a Yildiz .410, and luckily he had a new one on the shelf. What a cracking little gun, I must say I did like it, light as a feather it looks like it's just the thing I'm after. The £450 price tag new I thought quite reasonable and the craftsmanship on them seemed pretty good. I have seen them second hand for around £350 +. Has anyone here used one at all or know of anyone who has one. Cheers

James I think the fact that you've been honest and forthright on here goes to show in some way that you are a reformed character, and long may you remain so. However, I'm sorry to say the theft and air gun convictions will heavily stand against you just now when they look at the sheet, and as others have said the two don't look good together, especially to give that person a shotgun certificate so soon after the offences were committed. You have to declare all former convictions on the form, because if you don't and they find out then you can forget any license for good and could well be prosecuted. Stay on the right side, we all make silly mistakes at times and hopefully yours are now behind you. As others have said you'll have to leave it for a minimum of five years and in the meantime, tighten your skills with an air gun and stay away from those people who you got into trouble with. You don't say what age you are, but if you want to shoot, join the Army or Air Cadets, that will look good on your character and you'll have a great time. You'll also get a chance to play with some nice weapons. Failing that, go along to your local shoot and ask if you can help out, someone will take you under their wing I'm sure. The very best of luck to you.

The Act in full is totally irrelevant and it's the exemption clause which is important here, and what we are discussing. This is not some fly-by-night information leaflet I am quoting you, but the actual DEFRA exemption form you have to fill in and get the Vet to sign when you are getting your dog's tail docked. The most important document. Or have you not seen one ? I suggest you check one out before shouting your mouth off and trying to belittle people.

Taken directly from the DEFRA Form, which includes the exemption sections of the Act: "Section Six - Specified types of dogs Hunt point retrieve breeds Spaniels of any type or combination of types Terriers of any type or combination of types"

I am not a fool, sir. I am also not in anyway claiming that he was the sole person responsible for lobbying, but the Lobbying forms you mention did little to sway the debate and the total ban was still going to be written onto the books until the last minute. Perhaps it has escaped your attention, but the National Working Terrier Federation is the only country sports organisation which actually has it's name on the DEFRA document. No other apart from the Military, Police and Rescue Services etc. Why would that be do you think ? Because they played a major role in putting together the final draft of the legislation perhaps ?

There were a lot of organisations involved, the Council of Docked Breeds, the Countryside Alliance, BASC to name but a few, and as it was going the ban was still going to be across the board. However, the exemptions were written in at the very final stage of the Bill. That final stage was the desired outcome of many, but primarily down to one man's persistence, lobbying and hard work where all the others were failing......no exaggeration, no bias, simply how it happened. It's been mentioned here how there's all this grey area within shooting and how it's hard to get dogs docked, and the BASC to be honest aren't a lot of help. Yet it's the complete opposite within Terrier circles and I don't know of anyone who has had any trouble getting their pups docked. That's how it should be within the shooting world, but it clearly isn't, why is that ? Because the BASC aren't advising or looking after their members properly ? The exemption clearly covers anyone who shoots and uses a dog for work as I have shown, and if that be a traditional docked breed there should be no problem getting the animal docked within the new law. The BASC have their advantages as an organisation, but in my opinion they aren't nearly so vocal as they should be within Country Sports and at times seem to disappear up their own a-se. When the Hunting Ban was on the table they didn't do nearly enough as they should have done and barely moved until they thought that shooting was possibly going to be next. Heaven forbid..........NO MORE GROUSE OR PHEASANT, MY LORD.......... Cheers

Chicken houses, barns and stables, especially once the weather turns cold. Or where animal food is stored. Cheers

I think most of it from either side is down to common decency and courtesy, especially with the days of Lord and Serf being long gone. If a farmer has been kind enough to let someone shoot the vermin on their land, they are doing him a favour and he is also doing them one, therefore common courtesy and respect should be expected from either side. That in my opinion means communicating with each other, so if some guys come along and also ask the farmer to shoot the land, or offer the farmer money do so, I would expect out of decency a telephone call from him to chat about it. Yes, the farmer has the final say regarding what happens on his land, but that doesn't mean he should forgo politeness and show respect for other people. Likewise with the person who has the permission. I can understand why an irate text would **** someone off and I've no doubt it was done in the heat of the moment, but then again if the new guys were acting recklessly it is understandable. However, this sort of thing is always best resolved in a face to face chat and thus avoiding any conflict. Cheers

Similar thing happened to me last year, a nice bit of permission from the farmer............ Next thing I know he's let some guy onto the land as well, who'd bunged him £500 and started putting down feeders. When we bumped into each other he said I don't want you down here anymore with your dogs, I said OK, I'll come back once the season has finished. No he said very aggressively, I don't want you down here at all. I made it known to the farmer I was not impressed especially by this guy's attitude, and now he's offering shooting down there at £350 a year. There's a couple of public footpaths running right across the land which I can see causing them problems, I'm also very tempted to wander down there once they start a days shooting and just hanging around on the footpath and ******* up their day - but that would make me just as bad as that Neanderthal. I'm still really hacked off about it, but at times it's just easier to walk away and save yourself all the aggro. Cheers

"Tryed yesterday two farmers yesterday both took my number but said they already have a few guys." Had the same thing myself, then I followed it up with a polite letter explaining what I'd like to do with his permission, vermin only. The land is right opposite my house and I mentioned I'd seen flocks of pigeons rolling up and down the fields along with a large number of crows. Anyway, he got the letter this morning and rang me back by lunchtime, no problem he said, I can shoot the land once the season is finished, as they also have a shoot operating on some of his land and they don't want me to frighten all the birds away. That'll do me and I'm sure the letter did the trick. Try it, you've nothing whatsoever to loose. Cheers

Bait with something smelly like fish, or failing that a tin of dog food or even a dead rabbit which has been split open and dragged around the garden to entice them in. The other option of course is to save your beauty sleep and get a cage with a pressure plate and bait it, then shoot it once caught. Cheers

I forgot to say, this only applies to England, Scotland have a total ban on docking and you can thank your Scottish Parliament for that. If it wasn't for Mr Barry Wade of the National Working Terrier Federation, that total ban would also apply in England, and he was lobbying MP's right up to the last minute to get the exemption clause put into the Bill for working dogs. Cheers

I am a member of the National Working Terrier Federation, The Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club and the Jack Russell Terrier Club of GB. I breed working Jack Russell Terriers, have all the paperwork required and a vet who will dock the pups tails for me and remove the dewclaws. Before when I had my pups tails docked I had to go through the Council of Docked Breeds, who then put me in touch with a Vet who would do it for me and it was all hush hush, even though it wasn't illegal. Section one of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (Section six) dealing with docking exemption requires the owner of the dam to have evidence/identification from one of the following: Armed Forces Emergency Rescue Police Prison HMRC Evidence that the owner of the dog will be using the dog for lawful pest control A current shotgun or firearms certificate used by the owner of the dog where it is used in the lawful shooting of animals A letter from a Gamekeeper, Land Occupier or his agent or a person with shooting rights, a shoot organiser, a club official, a person representing the National Working Terrier Federation, pest control.................. Under the new laws exemption applies for working dogs which are used in certain specified activities such as, Section Five - Specified activities Law enforcement Activities of HM Armed Services Emergency/Rescue Lawful Pest Control The Lawful shooting of Animals Section Six - Specified types of dogs Hunt point retrieve breeds Spaniels of any type or combination of types Terriers of any type or combination of types Any pups docked now have to have all the details of their owner and the dam filled in on a DEFRA form and signed by the vet. The dogs also have to be chipped and again signed by the Vet, although they don't usually do this until they are around 12 weeks old so if the pup is sold the new owners will have to have the form filled in. The form is then supposed to stay with the owner/s as proof the dog's tail was docked legally. There's no reason why anyone here who shoots and uses one of the docked breeds shouldn't be able to get their pups tails docked. If your current vet won't do it, find one who will, there's plenty of vets into hunting shooting and fishing. Cheers

I agree with WDG and everything he says is correct, you've no worries whatsoever on the dog being docked. In fact it's easier now to get the tails docked of a working breed than it was before the docking ban came in last year, and thankfully it's only working dogs who are now docked, as opposed to it being done for cosmetic reasons. The all important exemption for 'Working Dogs' was won after much lobbying of MP's by the President of the National Working Terrier Federation and Vice Chairman of the Jack Russell Terrier Club of GB, Mr Barry Wade. If it wasn't for his hard work there would be a total ban across the board on tail docking, and it's all down to him there being an exemption clause written into the Bill. If you breed a working dog and you want the pups tails docked as that breed used to have, all you have to do is download the tail docking exemption form from the DEFRA web site, or ring them up and they'll email it to you. Then you have to have proof you work your dogs by having a letter from a recognised organisation like the National Working Terrier Federation, doing Pest control, Gun dogs etc, then many vets who wouldn't dock in the past will now do it once you have the correct paperwork. Cheers

I've had the exact same problem, I've visited a farmer a month ago to ask about shooting pigeons, crow and rabbit and wasn't given a no, the lady said she'd ask her son and I left a card. I went back and made a polite visit two days ago to ask if they'd had any further thoughts, she said she'd not had the time to talk to her son properly as they've been so busy, what with all the wet weather then getting a settled dry period, they'd ben busy sorting the fields. The land over-looks my house, and today I saw a large flock of 30 or so pigeons swirling up and down as well as a whole bunch of crows, all waiting to be shot. I'll give them another few weeks then move on. Cheers Michael

Could you send me some details please ? Thank you Michael

Thames Valley Police - North Bucks. Application in, cheque cashed after two weeks, chased it up after four weeks to be told the Firearms Officer was on two weeks leave. Rang him the day he got back, left a message, he rang me back and came to see me the next day. A very nice guy, we spent 40 minutes chatting about dogs over tea, he then said I better do what I came here for, everything OK, spent another 40 mins chatting guns. SGC came within two weeks. Just under 9 weeks total. Cheers Michael

Gareth Sounds like the best introduction a 6 YO could have. You also sound like you have an on-going job if you keep feed in there, and I expect it'll be a case of just keeping the numbers down. I'm surprised you don't keep a terrier on the farm for such jobs. The last ratting job I did was passed on from an old respected Terrierman from Oxford as it was down in West London at some private residences. Three of us met up with seven terriers and moved around smoking all the outbuildings one by one - we got one rat, bolted a fox and the dogs also had a tussle with a cat, which used up 6 1/2 of it's seven lives during the encounter. Poor show really and a waste of time as all the drain covers were broken or damaged, it was quite obvious as soon as we got there where all the rats were all coming and going from at will. Cheers Michael

Hi Gareth Good job You really need a terrier, or two, or three depending on how many rats there are. I'm sure the Kelpie will get one or two but he's too big and won't be quick enough for the rats, or get into places a terrier can. Your ideal scenario is like Sam has, open the door, lamp on and throw half a dozen Terriers in and watch the carnage They hate the smoke and will leave almost immediately, so if you gave them a good blast all around, not just in one place, you maybe saw all there was. Wait until we get a good frost for a night or two then have another go, I bet you'll get a lot more as they start seeking cover. Cheers Michael

That's like saying I had the nicest bar of chocolate you've ever tasted, but I've eaten it all Cheers Michael

I quite fancy one of these if anyone else has one for sale, single or double. Cheers Michael

I agree. Terriers, Sticks or a Gun - never pick and mix. The best fun and most effective though is without doubt the Terriers Cheers Michael

That looks pretty neat, the Russell seems to get quite a few. I too would be interested to hear if anyone has used one of these smokers Cheers Michael

There's few things more fun than watching Terriers working and killing rats Firstly, don't go digging them out, that's too much like hard work.... As Cranfield and Hezbear say, get yourself a chainsaw, not forgetting to remove the chain of course, then smoke the ******* out and let the party begin as the terriers hover them up. I've inherited an old leaf-blower which has had an 20" small pipe attached to the exhaust so you can get into all those little places, ideal. However, before the fun begins: 1. Be sure your terrier is fully up to date with it's vaccinations. 2. Always take a pair of washable plastic or garden gloves for handling the dead rats and a bin liner or two to put them in. You may find there's a little too much cover for the rats at present, if so give it a month or so until we get some frosts on the ground and they start moving into barns etc, then you may find you'll get better results. Your dog is also bound to get bitten the first time, but once is usually enough for them to learn and gain a hatred of them not to get caught again. For those who haven't a terrier, try doing the same but with a .410, an ideal ratting gun but you'll never get as many as the terriers Have fun. Cheers Michael