20citori20

Not to rekindle any arguments, but where did "Will" Charge Too Much get that little green guy holding up the double barrel. Deako, I'm not making fun, but your "it seems I have caused you some offense" response put me in stitches. :laugh: Anyhow, best advice I have ever heard was probably to not eat city pigeons. Exhaust fumes, cigarette butts and oil ridden puddles taint the meat causing severe side effects and addictions in humans

I know this is an old topic, but it's one I have enjoyed exploring for myself. I have always preferred the feel of a 20 to a 12. Of coarse, I also asked myself what I would be giving up if I made the switch, more specifically on larger birds such as fowl. A 2 3/4" shell loaded w/ 7/8oz of 7 1/2's is all I have ever needed to pluck pigeons out of the air to 30 yards (sorry, I don't do conversions ). I have never tried this load with # 6 shot, only because I haven't found the need to deliver any more punch or shoot at a greater distance. I should mention I shoot an improved and modified choke. I believe the true test of the 20's ability was shooting ducks. We are mandated to shoot steel at waterfowl here in the states. Steel is lighter than lead so anything accomplished with it can be considered somewhat less than what can be expected from shooting the same load of lead. Your Wood Pigeon seems to be comparable to our teal. 20 ga. steel in a 2 3/4" load of 4 shot exits the barrel at an astonishing speed of 1400-1500 fps. This is significantly faster than 12 ga., which is usually about 1300 fps. Clean kills are a norm for large and small ducks out to 30 yards. At 35 yards birds will hit the water but clean kills are not the norm. To bring the 20's ballistics (same shot size and number shooting faster) above a 12 gauge shooting 2 3/4" shells all one needs to do is shoot a 3" shell. A 20ga. shooting a 3" shell can do anything a 12 ga. can muster shooting identical shot. Shoot a 3" shell out of the 20 ga. using #2 shot and expect clean kills within 40 yards. I have even killed Giant Canada Geese (weighing in at 12-14 lbs. and having a 6 foot wing span) with both 2 3/4 and 3" shells from a 20. In short, if you’re thinking about shooting a 20 but are afraid of losing something ballistically-don't. I shoot a 20 for most all game and don't plan on ever going back to a 12. Our loads may differ from yours. I also don't compare a 3" 12 ga. shell to a 20 because I have never found the desire to shoot at birds over 40 yards. In my opinion there a few experienced shooters, let alone good shooters, who can consistently produce clean kills beyond the 40 yard marker. The cost is crippled and lost birds, not worth the price to me.

What are the pigeon shell decoys on this web site constructed of (rubber or plastic)? My buddy has some old Wood Pigeon rubber decoys. Once again, an American dollar equals how much of those funny "L's"? Yens, pounds, francs (can't even spell them)….. my last experience with these was 20 years ago! Nice site, wish I had one here with pigeon accessories.

Hmmm? My response from yesterday doesn't show up here. I probably put somewhere it didn't belong! Well, I'll try again. I didn't hunt crows; I set up about a hundred yards from my buddy with goose decoys. They were hunting over decoys and using farm machinery for a blind. They also used an electronic caller. They shot a few, missed a few more, but did better than me. I remember asking if you folks have had any experience with the West Nile Virus in your birds. Primarily crows.

I did some reading to catch up a bit. Noticed a little more info. on crow hunting. I have a good number of crows in the area. I have already been invited on a crow hunt as a matter of fact. It was 10 degrees with 15-25 M.P.H. winds (you'll have to convert that yourselves). Little uncomfortable for 10 to 15 shots. They seem to wise up to the gun in short order too! I've got a lot of typing to do to become an "Ace." I'm curious. Once you achieve such rank, do you ever miss? :*)

Hello friends from abroad. Its been awhile! I moved across the state (Ohio) and had a little problem finding the web page on my new Internet service. Would like to hear about some of your pigeon hunts since the last time we spoke. I have not hunted any pigeons since then but have scouted the new area for prospective sites. This area doesn't hold the number of birds I became accustomed to in western Ohio, but there are opportunities. So, any fantastic days afield since last July?

I don't have anything big enough to handle the tiger! I'll shoot it in the rump with a .22 and let you practice your death grip on it ! I am in the process of trying different shot now. As a matter of fact, I just purchased 7 1/2 and 8 shot today. I wanted 9 shot but couldn't find any. This is obviously much smaller than you prefer. I bought the .410 for doves. I have used factory-loaded 9's in the 20 gauge with great results. Just don't shoot birds inside of 15 yards and outside of 30. With modified and improved chokes I found an adequate number of pellets finding their mark for clean kills. I have watched my buddy’s shoot 7 1/2's in .410 and struggle on a few occasions. One pellet in the bird may or may not be adequate. I'm certain I won't need to go any smaller than 7 1/2 for doves. I will shoot a majority of my shots between 20 and 25 yards with the .410. If I am hitting birds and they are not falling or are often times alive on the ground I do the opposite of most. I decrease shot size creating a denser pattern. Energy difference between these two sizes at this distance is insignificant in my opinion. Number of pellets and shot placement are. More shot and an open choke seem to make bad shooting days and crippled birds diminish significantly. I am in the process of moving so I will only be around on occasion for the next few months. I am fairly certain you would enjoy a more slim line, lighter 20 gauge over a 12. I'm not an expert or a crack shot, but I have no problems killing fat winter mallards out to 30 yards with #4 steel shot using a 20 gauge. These are tough birds with thick skin and lots of fat and plumage. I have even killed geese inside that range. The same load with lead shot would be devastating on pigeons. I would probably use 6 shot on your bigger and some times further Wood Pigeons. Talk to you soon.

I bruised my knee because of you Cranfield! I was sitting here minding my own business, reading your response when I caught the silhouette of a flying pigeon out of the corner of my eye. Reflex had me jump across the room for my gun and a shell and I slammed my knee into the gun safe. I did manage to get off a shot at the second bird crossing. I haven't found a feather among all the plastic and glass yet, but the shot felt good. Maybe the dead bird lies on your end . I too haven't noticed any good clay shooters (sporting) that aren't good feather shooters. There are however, a few trap shooters that are horrible at putting game in the freezer. The event has a good bit of media coverage, but no running cameras that I am aware of. Maybe the final shoot offs are televised? Lord Stafford and his estate? Somehow I get the feeling this guy doesn't mow his own lawn ! I have seen a few clips on TV of this type of shooter. It's almost too much believe. There is a guy over here, or from somewhere, who is a famous skeet shooter. I watched him shoot three or four stations from the hip. He never missed! I shot pigeons yesterday in a dairy lot. These birds haven't been shot at this year so I took my .410. All I have is factory loads, #9 shot 2 1/2." Most shots were 15-20 yards but I shot consistently out to almost 30. I shot a couple birds at 35 but had to run them down so I set my limit at 30. Surprisingly, I wasn't able to notice any difference between a 20 ga. 2 3/4 loaded with 7 1/2's and the .410. Birds just didn't seem to have the ability to fly through a wall of number 9's. One thing I did notice was margin of error. If my follow through or form didn't feel quite right, it ended up being a complete woof (miss). I can usually get a way with some of that shooting a 20. I ended up with 39 birds and newfound respect for the Lil' Gun. At our last unsuccessful shoot one of my buddies brought his .410 loaded with 3" shells comprised of 7 1/2's. He shot a few birds out to 30 yards with no problems. He also had his 20 gauge in the blind! I'll be gone for the next 4 days, so I'll get back with you then. I'm heading for the State Fair. I'm going to call a few guys "bloke's" and see what kind of response I get. You may be liable for a bruised eye too!

True, so true. Hey Cranfield, any of your shooting buddies over here at the Grand National Trap Shooting Competition?

Ah, but all is not lost. Innovation is self-destructive. The more gadgets we collect and sophisticated we become the greater the desire for simplicity. It's apparent in all sports. From hook and worm to fancy crankbaits, longbows to crossbows, single-shots to auto's - with age we all return to what is true, simple and pure. Why? Because it works! Up until yesterday the Mojo Dove was the ultimate killing machine. Unfortunately, the pigeons have somehow learned to "recognize" that Mojo means NO-GO. We killed about 10 birds all afternoon. It was a humbling experience. I think we have fooled all we are going to fool in this population this year. If we hunt them again it will be with real decoys in big numbers with no Mojo. I watched an England pigeon shooting video yesterday. There were a couple "professional pigeon shooters" putting it on. I actually got to see them hunt over Rape and Peas. It's a little different shooting. Most of the birds shot in the video coming to decoys were singles. It's on rare occasion we have a flock of less than 6-10 come in. Wood Pigeons also seem to maintain their flight pattern and turn on the jets after being shot at while Rock Doves scatter in every direction. I saw some plastic full body decoys, shells, telescopic blind poles, dead bird mounting poles and all kinds of goodies that are impossible to find in the states. Well, time to get off here. Good luck!

Have any of you heard of the Mojo Duck? It is simply a plastic duck decoy with an electric motor in which you attach wings (plastic cardboard). The wings simply spin creating a flash. They now make a Mojo Dove. Its wings have white on one side and gray on the other. They run off of a 6-volt battery that lies beneath the decoy. I strung a wire out to the decoy that I feed back to the blind, or hide for you folks, and then added a toggle switch. When I see birds, as far as 400-500 yards away, I switch the decoy on until I see them turn and zero in on it. Then I turn it on and off to represent feeding birds (over here they fly three or four feet, sit down and feed and then repeat the process). Absolutely deadly. There is little doubt that I could kill as many birds with this Mojo and three decoys as a guy with three dozen decoys. I suspect you guys already have something of this sort!?

I suppose we should start another topic, like you suggested, before we get to page 10. It may be wise to note that reloading for me only becomes substantially economical if I buy components by bulk. No fewer than 5000 primers and wads and 8 lbs. of powder- plus good hulls. Bad hulls make for more swearing than reloading . Had another great shoot yesterday totaling 251 birds. I video tapped most of it. Actually, I just pointed the camera over the decoys and reached out of the blind and turned it on when birds were coming! A fair number of the shots took place outside the screen. I'll have a better setup next time. I'm going to miss the shooting when I leave. Hoping there is some activity where I'm heading.

I would certainly think if your shotgun shells can be purchased cheaper in the UK that your components would follow suit. I figure a manufacturer of shells is charging for components and processing. Process your self and save!? Reloading .410 here is not optional except for the filthy rich. They are expensive. About $7.00 for 25. .410 shooters actually seem to be increasing though. At least for dove, skeet and sporting clay shooters who don't compete for cash. I have shot both my 20 and .410 at the blackbird lot and I don't notice any difference out to thirty except for recoil and the weight of my wallet. I'm sure when I have an off day with the .410 it will only seem that much worse. Shoot pigeons tomorrow . They were pouring in the wheat field today. Can't wait.

You have a friend that is a good guide. I consider that very different than driving to a property to hunt with a guy you have never met. Sounds like you have great contact there. I agree that hunting and fishing is a great catalyst for travel and new experiences. I have put together hunts on public properties in other states just using the Internet. Most all have been rewarding; all have been fun and interesting. There is no market for pigeon meat here although it is legal to sell or trade them. Most all game species with exception of a few parts (i.e. antlers, hides) are illegal to buy, sell or barter. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act put a halt to the commercialization of waterfowl and shorebirds in the early 1900's. It initialized seasons and separated game from nongame species as well as prohibiting spring shooting. States have adopted similar regulations on game animals to protect them from commercialization. As a matter of fact, we just concluded a two-year covert investigation on the selling of flathead catfish to pay lakes here in Ohio. I believe approximately 145 citations were issued to 75 individuals who had caught wild flathead catfish and sold them to private organizations who put them in ponds. They collect monies from people interested in fishing these locations. All wild animals are property of the state and held in trust for the people of the state, even if they are on private property. The ability to manage wildlife on public and private lands has allowed many game and nongame species to reach all time highs. The system works well and ensures equal opportunity and a bright future for hunters. Out of curiosity, what would a 1000 new or once fired Winchester AA .410 hulls cost you (if they are available)?

Let me warn you Cranfield, if you don't want to become infatuated with the sport of turkey hunting, don't try it. It's a disease! I couldn't imagine what all the excitement was surrounding the killing of a bird on the ground. I figured if I didn't have to swing through to kill it, it wasn't worth killing with a shotgun. How wrong I was. Just remember who warned you. I kill birds on both public and private. I have hunted as far south as Mississippi. We did a float hunt down there. No guides. Half the hunt is calling the bird in yourself. It's an easy sport to get into. There is plenty of literature out there to prepare you for a hunt. Every bird will have it's own personality and will react to certain calls differently. Some will be easy to kill but others you may never even get a chance to see. Calling is only 20% of the game. I am not an expert. Never will be. Learn something different every hunt. But I have put my share of birds in the oven; hence, why I now do it with a bow. Eighty percent of the game is set-up and energy! Put yourself where that bird likes to be, is going to be, or feels safe being and there is a good chance of killing him. Energy is required to put ones *** in that position. Sounds stupid but hear me out. I kill birds because I can get up and down hills, out and around obstacles, through creeks and over high walls. I usually hunt the hills and on large tracks of ground. The average turkey hunter is lazy and rarely travels more than a quarter mile from his truck. Of coarse, not all terrain that turkeys inhabit is like what I am explaining. Where I live it's flat with small wood lots. Here it takes more finesse to get into a good position and less energy. But then again, I consider brainpower energy too. Have a go at it, but remember what I told you. You will become possessed :evil: Found a good number of birds in a wheat field today. These are the same birds we killed in the beans. We are going to try a hunt in a couple days. Hopefully their "experience" a couple weeks ago has been diminished enough not to remind them of what our battery operated decoy looks like! I'll let you know how we do. Birds offering you any opportunities?

Two guns and a loader!? Good idea. I would have to buy another .410 though. Guess that's not all bad. The numbers of blackbirds on this farm can only be imagined. Smaller cattle lots have blackbirds too, but after a couple shots the gig is up. It is adjacent to a highway that it bordered by power lines. Starting this time of year (young begin to fly) the birds begin to group up and migratory restlessness sets in. During peak migration the birds will follow this highway for miles to this farm. It has truly become a migratory stop for the birds. It's impossible to discourage their feeding and watering. I sat next to cattle trough full of food and shot my heart out trying to prevent a bird from snagging a piece of feed. I succeeded for a couple hours. After I ran out of shells it took all of 10 minutes for swarms of flocks to concentrate on the feed. This was an average day. It's truly incredible. Our coyote situation has occurred from natural expansion of their geographical range. Over the past 50 years or so the coyote has pushed eastward as civilization clears the deciduous forests. They are an open country species that adapts well to urban environments. That is exactly what the eastern U.S. is now comprised of. I had one yesterday evening, while I was jogging, run across the road in front of me. I was in a neighborhood that surrounds a short weed field. It was mousing or maybe looking for a house cat or small rat like dog! Most people are clueless that they live amongst us. Some will tell you the wildlife agencies stocked them to control the deer herd. Not so. I think of them as sort of the special forces of the animal kingdom. They are able to survive anywhere. Very secretive. Adaptable. No doubt will be the last mammal in the event of a catastrophic event (along with the rat and cockroach). Duck and goose hunting are really on the way out for me too. Tired of tripping over people to shoot 2 ducks. Pheasants are all but gone around here. Farming practices changed, fencerows where torn out, old fields cropped and the pheasants extirpated. There is something special about zapping a groundhog hundred's of yards out in the middle of a bean field that will make me continue to seek those opportunities. I guess wing shooting doves, pigeons and blackbirds along with bow hunting deer and turkey is all I need to keep me busy and happy.

Didn't mean to imply that you would support something like that. So far we are safe in the area of pigeon hunting. Other types of hunting? Groundhog (centerfire), duck and goose (when it's really good and in North Dakota every year), squirrel (.22), Morning Dove, pheasant (Iowa), turkeys (Ohio and Kentucky w/ a bow and shotgun), coyotes (centerfire, just starting), deer (bow only, it is my true passion and the one I would choose if I could only do one), and rabbit (not much anymore since my beagle died). Oh yeah, fishing is a must too! Shot the blackbird lot today. I used my brand new .410. I shot 275 rounds. Needless to say, the action isn't as stiff as it was earlier today! I'm not sure how hot a barrel can safely get but on a few occasions I had to stop because it was too hot to touch . I wish I could do more for the farmer but it's a futile cause. His barn frame supports have 5 to 6 inches of bird droppings piled on them. If termites ever eat all the wood away I'm certain the sh-t will hold up the building :laugh: What other bird and beast do you pursue?

We have shot birds more than once in the same field. It usually consists of a few flocks passing just out of range and landing at the other end of the field. If you don't take the two hundred yard walk to flush them out every flock coming to the field joins them. I checked the field a few days ago we shot and a fraction of the numbers still remained. Most were using an adjacent bean field convienatly located between two homes. Possibilities are present but can be frustrating. We will usually seek another population using a different location and keep tabs on the hunted flock and hunt them after they switch fields. They don't seem near as weary in a different location. The idea of lease hunting is spreading east across the U.S. in a hurry. Western states have leased huge parcels of ground for big game and waterfowl for decades. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it and feel it will only add to the shrinking number of hunters in parts of the U.S. The average Joe will no longer be able to afford to hunt. This has already happened on large tracks of paper company ground in my state. Ten guys will lease 2000 acres that 50 average men used to turkey, deer, and grouse hunt for most of their lives. The problem with lease hunting for pigeons is that the birds will usually only use a particular field once every three years when the crop rotation returns to wheat. And even then they will use an adjacent field for no apparent reason. We don't have people pursuing pigeons here. A few old timers that used to hunt them remain. They will tell stories of 500 to 600 bird shoots! I can't even begin to imagine what a shoot like that would be like. I think cities years ago consisted of single populations that would concentrate in one field. Urban sprawl has created separate populations of birds located miles apart that rarely concentrate in the same field or location. I'm certain gaining access here is easier, but people are surely losing their "connection with the land" if you will. We just gained permission from a farmer to hunt a good group of birds. He said he had contracted histoplasmosis (or however you spell it) from pigeon dropping in his hay a year ago. Once mom and daughter found out there was going to be guns on the property they shut us down. These are the new and improved never been introduced to hunting farmers. There are old timers still around that fed themselves on wild game and fauna. Unfortunately, their kids have been raised in an era of economic growth coupled with bad gun publicity. Hunters are no longer a usual part of society but rather a group of gun toting barbarians. Getting permission in some instances can include a tongue lashing, hence a big factor for me moving from this area. Good luck with the pigeons.

We have shot birds more than once in the same field. It usually consists of a few flocks passing just out of range and landing at the other end of the field. If you don't take the two hundred yard walk to flush them out every flock coming to the field joins them. I checked the field a few days ago we shot and a fraction of the numbers still remained. Most were using an adjacent bean field convienatly located between two homes. Possibilities are present but can be frustrating. We will usually seek another population using a different location and keep tabs on the hunted flock and hunt them after they switch fields. They don't seem near as weary in a different location. The idea of lease hunting is spreading east across the U.S. in a hurry. Western states have leased huge parcels of ground for big game and waterfowl for decades. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it and feel it will only add to the shrinking number of hunters in parts of the U.S. The average Joe will no longer be able to afford to hunt. This has already happened on large tracks of paper company ground in my state. Ten guys will lease 2000 acres that 50 average men used to turkey, deer, and grouse hunt for most of their lives. The problem with lease hunting for pigeons is that the birds will usually only use a particular field once every three years when the crop rotation returns to wheat. And even then they will use an adjacent field for no apparent reason. We don't have people pursuing pigeons here. A few old timers that used to hunt them remain. They will tell stories of 500 to 600 bird shoots! I can't even begin to imagine what a shoot like that would be like. I think cities years ago consisted of single populations that would concentrate in one field. Urban sprawl has created separate populations of birds located miles apart that rarely concentrate in the same field or location. I'm certain gaining access here is easier, but people are surely losing their "connection with the land" if you will. We just gained permission from a farmer to hunt a good group of birds. He said he had contracted histoplasmosis (or however you spell it) from pigeon dropping in his hay a year ago. Once mom and daughter found out there was going to be guns on the property they shut us down. These are the new and improved never been introduced to hunting farmers. There are old timers still around that fed themselves on wild game and fauna. Unfortunately, their kids have been raised in an era of economic growth coupled with bad gun publicity. Hunters are no longer a usual part of society but rather a group of gun toting barbarians. Getting permission in some instances can include a tongue lashing, hence a big factor for me moving from this area. Good luck with the pigeons.

Don't remind me Cranfield! I will surely miss the pigeon shooting here, but plan to visit at least once a year for a shoot. There has got to be pigeons where I'm going. Maybe not in these numbers, but even a 25 bird shoot is to fun to pass on. We have drawn the attention of "people" on both shoots this year. Law Enforcement! We have had sheriff deputies respond to the field’s reference complaints on us shooting. Although we have permission and are shooting safely, people around these parts stick their noses in other folks business. The deputies are required to ask questions and then tell the complainants we are doing nothing wrong. Sometimes the officer's and complainants try calling the game warden to further harass us. Unfortunately they have a hard time getting a hold of us . As you know, it requires a good bit of scouting to put a shoot together. I assume folks who don't have the benefit of scouting during their work related activities would have a hard time finding birds. I don't know why retired folks around here don't pursue them though. Have you had any good shoots since the last time we spoke?

No, we didn't take a photo. I have only ever taken one photograph of a pigeon hunt. It was a 180 bird shoot with me and one other friend. It was his idea. We would have taken a snap shot yesterday, but my partner left his camera at home because the LCD screen (or something like that) was broke. I think the reason we haven't taken many pictures is the simple fact of not wanting to advertise this type of hunting. We basically have three separate populations of pigeons within one city. We are able to follow each of these groups to different fields and hunt them at our convenience. It would only take a couple groups of guys to start following birds to create a "race to hunt" atmosphere . We have never tried taking turns with the first shot. Maybe we will give that a try! We usually are all able to pluck one bird from the flock. Once the birds flare they determine their own fate. One or all of us may have a good second shot. We have had some high ratio hunts when we were able to put a strong quartering tail wind from the right through the decoys. The first shot is a give-me and the second flaring shot is usually toward the blind from left to right. The second shot has to be quick before the bird is able to catch a tail wind. Once the tail wind is caught the bird is rising from right to left at mock three. I hate those shots and usualy miss by this much .

Sorry I haven't responded in a while. I'm getting ready to transfer to another county and had to do some traveling. We shot that bean field today that I've been talking about in the past. Found out why they were in this particular field. The farmer had corn planted last year and it sustained some wind damage. The combine was unable to pick it all up off the ground and there is a ton of waste grain in amongst the beans. We had a super hunt. Believe it or not, our total was 265 birds. We shot steady for 4 hours. At times it was hard to keep the guns loaded and the barrels were too hot to touch. We had three guns and shot a little better than 50%. Averages go up significantly with two guns but numbers suffer. This is primarily because of the confusion after the first shot into a group of 15 birds. They scatter quick sometimes leaving one or more of the shooters taking bead on the same bird or with a marginal shot. Pulling three doubles is difficult but I hunt with some good shooters and we manage it quite often. The county I am moving to does not have near the pigeons as the area I am in now. I'll do my best to find opportunities though. The toughest job was carrying them all out of the field . The other two guys I was shooting with ran out of shells. Unfortunately my shell box became a public attraction . I was nice and let them continue shooting. We figured we had about 2200 to 2500 pigeons in front of us today. We will try shooting the same field Friday. Can't wait. Time to start reloading .

Throttle it? That's a new one to me, but I'm figuring it doesn't mean getting up at 4:15 in the morning and delicately spreading birdseed on your lawn for it to feed upon! I didn't get the response with our battery-operated decoys that I expected. What are you able to accomplish with yours? Do they ever get shy of it? We were able to keep birds off the top of a silo and continue in our direction for a look-see, but they weren't settled on landing in 10-inch wheat stubble. I didn't blame them though. Seen birds today landing in 10 inch beans This is not normal. It's like they are picking grit. I don't know what to think. Beans certainly went in late this year and should be quite a bit taller, but why they haven't switched to the newly harvested wheat is a mystery. I also consider 70 birds a good day just about anyway you slice it- except averages from previous years. I'll never complain about a hunt. I just get upset with myself if I think we didn't do as well as we should have on the account of missing some slight detail. I like every aspect of pigeon hunting. I even enjoy following flocks of birds as they fly the same routes as previous flocks, dipping and turning using the same landmarks to follow to the food. When you finally reach the field it's like finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow . We usually have three guns in the field. Bird/Cartridge ratio is beyond me!? I'm certain it wasn't as good as our decoying bird hunts. It was tough shooting. I was finding myself shooting behind birds frequently. In the afternoon, when the winds were the highest, I was typically leading birds 5 to 6 feet (sustained lead) at 25 yards. This wasn't enough on many occasions. Two of us were using 20 gauge 7/8oz. loads of 7 1/2's. For the first time pigeon hunting, I can honestly say I would have preferred a 12 gauge with 6 shot. When there is a demand, we trade pigeons for reloading components with a retriever club. We also use them for our own training purposes. My hunting partner said he has tried to eat a few and they aren't bad but nothing to come running for! Come on over, bring me a few cases of that cheap ammo and some Wood Pigeon meat and oh yeah, a dozen decoys, I'll pay you when you get here . Be patient with customs. They are little touchy about guns and knifes.

This is the second response, the first I somehow lost by backing up to make sure I didn't forget anything you may have asked. This will be a shorter version of the first, it's late. Most of the "blackbirds" we shoot are starlings, some grackles and few red-winged. All are legal when a nuisance or causing damage. It's aggravating when one flies within gun range of me. Aggrevation is a nuisance so therefore they are always legal. . Seriously, we hunt a true nuicance problem. I couldn't explain it. You would have to see it. It's quite disgusting. Hunted beans again today. We weren't in the best field and it showed. We weren't able to pull many flocks into the decoys by sitting in the flyway. We figured we only had one other option, pass shoot. We were able to put about 70 on the ground, which is very poor considering the numbers of birds. If we would have been in a wheat field with decoying birds- I can't imagine the shoot we could of had. We certaintly had a good time though. Maybe next week. I hope your next hunt is more productive. I hope mine is too . I need to hit the hay, more later. Good hunting.

Your right on the money reference soybeans. We have looked for adjacent fields or one directly under thier flight paths for possible sets but haven't found anything but more corn and beans . So, here we sit waiting for change in patterns. We know every opportunity that they could take advantage of within 2 miles of their current location. Oddly enough, these birds will fly over 10 fields prepared and harvested exactly the same way to get to one that looks less than ideal for feeding. They know something we don't! The usual rotation of crops here is corn to beans and then wheat. If we look in the bean fields now we find little of nothing for food. Beans are usually drilled in harvested corn the following spring. Left over corn seems an unlikely food source since it has been subject to the elements for so long. Weed seeds possibly. I guess I need to shoot one over beans and check its crop. The wheat seed itself is harvested by combine and the stems are left standing. The stems are then cut, raked and bailed for livestock bedding. This exposes the left over grain from...............let's see, a better word.....proceeds, no...yield, no.......reap, no......glean, no........your right harvest is the best....harvest. If the wheat comes off early enough there is actually time for farmers to drill beans directly into the wheat stubble for harvest in the fall. If nothing is drilled in the stubble it is left idle and begins to green from existing weeds and germinating wheat that fell to the ground during harvest. Narrow window of opportunity, at least for concentrated birds . Tomorrow morning I will check another cities fruits (Pigeons) for shooting possibilities. My other hunting partner will do the same. If we find something and are able to secure permission we could shoot in the afternoon. If not, we pull out the .410's and head to a cattle lot to burn 200 rounds a piece on nuisance blackbirds. Economically speaking, this one is extremely difficult to justify to the wife. She can't figure out how one box lasts all year for rabbits and 8 boxes disappear in two hours for blackbirds . We did shoot pigeons at a pond located between a food source and roost last year. The edge of the pond had a gradual gravel edge clear of weeds and grass. It was a perfect spot for a quick sip before heading back to roost. I noticed the pattern and placed three dove decoys in one inch of water along the bank and we shot 80 birds over water. What a hunt to remember! Where do you stand for your next shoot?