Evilv
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Posts posted by Evilv
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Federal landed an multi billion unit deal (can't remember the numbers) to help 'the war on terror' 'tis true, but that was some time ago, and as far as I can tell they are/were available again.
Have a word with Fred James Ive, 01483 797777 ext 134 or try email fred.james@nra.org.uk
Apparently, in the 'War on Terror', the average expenditure of ammunition for a hit is 50,000 rounds. I read somewhere that in WW2 it was 200 rounds for a dead enemy.
How you doing buddy .Not heard from you in years but then again I've been quiet on here over the last several months.
I'm fine. Just enjoying a glut of rabbits and reawakening my interest in shooting sports.
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Ah - thanks for that Bob.
It's peeing down here or I'd be out shooting rabbits instead of wasting time on the couch.
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There about 12.50 for 50 but if you get them in 500 works out a little bit cheaper ,no idea about HM2. That Henry Varmiter Express does look the part is it tube feed ? if so how many rounds .I,ve tryed my HMR without a mod on and believe me you,ll what a mod on it ! Think that would spoil the looks for the Henry Varmiter Express .
Yeah - I love the look of it. It is tube fed and it holds eleven rounds. Viking Arms the importer say the recommended price is £408, but it is up to the dealer and discounts can be had.
25 pence a shot then.... It's a bit much for the number of rabbits I'm shooting just now. I can knock off forty a day easily and when I say day, I'm talking maybe three hours or four. However, I'm easily able to get those with the 22LR. The Henry would be for long ones and if I'm honest, because I want one.
Yes - on the mod. The whole idea of that cowboy gun would be ruined by a mod. Doesn't do a lot for my CZ either. I got the rather quaintly styled European stock, long barrel and shnurle fore end.
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How much are you paying for HMR Rabbithunter? Also, what's the price of HM2 if you can help out with that ?
I'm quite interested in the Henry Varmiter Express. To my mind it's a lovely looking rifle and quite well thought of in the States. Kind of reminds me of the old Winchester 9422 I used to have in .22WMR back in the mid 1980s. I sorely wish I'd kept that gun, but I sold it one winter when I needed some cash for a stupid project I had going.
The Henry comes in 17HMR and is something I think I would enjoy owning and using. It wouldn't take a mod but then I don't suppose there's any point in putting a mod on an HMR because the sonic crack would be loud anyhow. Anyhow, I find my further off rabbits don't seem to react to the stinger's loud crack that much. I had a couple with it that were sitting side by said the day before yesterday.
I see you and I share the same county Rabbithunter.
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I've tried CCi Stingers, Velocitors, Mini Mags, Eley HV, RWS, Remmy Cyclones, Yellow Jackets & Winchester Lasers.
Agree the Stingers could be better & not a bad round to use. .22 HV's have there uses.
Have you compared against HMR or HM2 for longer range shooting.
No - I haven't any experience of them at all. I'm thinking of applying for a 17 HMR variation. I fancy the Henry Varmiter Express rfile in HMR. Only trouble is the cost of the ammo. It looks like £13 a box at the local dealer which is well over twice the Stinger cost. I know the HMR is very accurate and flat... I just need to weigh up the advantages over the cost. I used to shoot .22 WMR which was a lovely flat shooting round, but again, really expensive. To be honest, the Stinger has extended my reach pretty well, and is a cert at 80 yards. It is more prone to wind which is a pity since my most productive shooting is at 1000 to 1300 feet above sea level on windy northern hillsides. The HMR would be affected by wind too, so I'm not sure it would be that advantageous. It is wind and the variability of it that usually limits my shooting range. How do you factor in a gusty 18 mile an hour side wind at 75 yards? This target shows the side drift of a 15 mph wind at 75 yards. I was shooting at the left hand upper target, then the wind lulled for the final shot and it came in an inch to the left of the others.
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Federal landed an multi billion unit deal (can't remember the numbers) to help 'the war on terror' 'tis true, but that was some time ago, and as far as I can tell they are/were available again.
Have a word with Fred James Ive, 01483 797777 ext 134 or try email fred.james@nra.org.uk
Apparently, in the 'War on Terror', the average expenditure of ammunition for a hit is 50,000 rounds. I read somewhere that in WW2 it was 200 rounds for a dead enemy.
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Lately I've been experimenting with stingers in my CZ 425. I have a fair bit of pest control and I felt like I needed a flatter shooting round than the outstanding Eley subs that I'd used since I bought the gun in 2006. The Eley is supremely accurate and quieter than an air gun with a sound mod on the barrel, but at longer ranges with variable terrain, I sometimes have problems judging the holdover required. On paper, the more or less half inch rise and fall between 35 and 75 yards in a rifle zeroed at 70 yards of this 1640 fps round seemed to make this cartridge fit the bill. I can judge whether a rabbit is somewhere between 35 and 75 yards and put the cross right in the middle of his head, but how would it perform in the field?
I bought a few boxes and fired most of the first one just zeroing the scope. This round has a poi about 2.5 inches higher than an Eley sub at 50 yards. Part of my problem was that the Tasco scope I have seems to have an interaction between the horizontal and the vertical elements in the reticule. Get it right for elevation, then move it a touch left and the bloody thing starts hitting off the target so start again bonny lad. I'm sure it's a fault and not endemic in the scope itself.
Once zeroed, I set about testing the groups. The stinger is not as accurate a round as the Eley Sub. Well you all knew that anyhow. How could it be? The sub will give a ragged hole at fifty yards on a calm day, whereas the stinger is about an inch at fifty yards as far as I'm concerned anyway. It is also a LOT louder. Surprisingly, it doesn't scare the rabbits as much as you might think, especially the longer range ones which suddenly become easy prey with the shiny silver cartridge. Where the stinger really counts though is in its phenomenal knock down power. It literally blows up the heads of young rabbits so you end up finding two ears dangling either side of a red pulpy mess that used to be the head. This is not that surprising when you consider the velocity difference. At sixty yards, the Stinger has 122 foot pounds of energy and is still traveling at 1309 fps. The energy at 120 yards is about the same as an Eley sub is at the muzzle.
On Monday afternoon, I went out to one of my favourite shoots, four small farms in the North Pennines that are crawling with rabbits. During a lull, while having a cereal bar, I set up a target sheet on an earthen bank sixty paces from a nice little mound that made prone shooting a breeze. I fired off five rounds and got a pretty good group nicely centred on the target. When I inspected the results, I realised that I would be able to recover the bullets from the sandy turf behind the card. They had ploughed their way deeply into the ground about two inches below the surface and I probed away with my fingers down the mouse hole sized cavity and managed to find three of the bullets. It was a surprise how far they had penetrated, the last was at least a foot into the ground, though admittedly, it had an easy start, shooting down the hole already made by the earlier rounds. The photograph below shows the target in situ, with the excavation of the bullet channel visible behind the top right target. The other thing to notice is that even though the bullets had mushroomed into a very lethal shape, they had retained all their mass. This is the big problem with the .22LR round, the bullets stay together and ricochets are likely and consist of a full weight bullet even if it is flat as a pancake
All in all, I like this round and will be buying more, even though they do cost a good bit more than some others. Always annoying to me is that when you google Stinger or any other American shooting product, you'll find it on sale over there at about half the cost we Brits are asked to pay. I was looking for a Henry Varmiter Express the other day. On sale in America at £258, but here, £406. What a ripoff that is, same as the ammo, only the ammo is worse since it doesn't need to be sent off for proof like a rifle does.
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I didn't advocate creating a nuisance. Nobody has the right to do that in any case. I did however advocate not inviting someone to deny you the right to pursue a lawful activity in a reasonable manner by as good as asking their permission. Being reasonable doesn't require you to ask the permission of the neighbours before you do something you are entitled to do and can accomplish without inconvenience or nuisance to them.
Of course any claim of nuisance would be subject to the test of reasonableness. It would certainly be reasonable to object to the carrying on of shooting for a period of twelve hours at a stretch in a suburban garden. It would also be incredibly tedious for the shooters and is therefore very unlikely to be going on so it isn't a great example. I expect that Andrew may envisage the odd half hour of shooting in his very large garden. For myself, I occasionally discharge ten or twenty .22 pellets from a springer air rifle into a brick cul-de-sac in a twenty metre garden.
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I don't envisage any lack of tact at all. Nobody is advocating brandishing a gun in a careless or menacing manner, just a guy quietly enjoying his garden in a lawful fashion without having to doff his cap at the locals or invite them to object to his safe, quiet and proper enjoyment of his property. Soon we will be asking if its ok to smoke in our gardens - not that I smoke, or approve of it, but my neighbour does and that's his business.
It would be wise to use a soft backstop like a bin full of old newspapers and card board. Then there won't be a lot of racket. Carpet is also quiet.
Andrew, the thread starter has a massive garden and can surely get on with his careful shooting in a way that his neighbours won't even know. Thinking about it, he might even be able to set up a hundred yard range and shoot out from inside his house - wouldn't that be a fine thing? Shooting from inside the house or from a shed is also a possibility as far as keeping the noise down is concerned, as long as you take precautions to avoid some poor family member coming into the wrong place while you are at it.
NB - I wouldn't recommend shooting at all unless I had at least a six foot high fence of solid construction to screen both noise, and oversight. It might also be of great assistance in the unfortunate event of a ricochet which above all else he would need to think about and design ways to prevent from happening. My target area is twelve feet inside a three sided brick box whose lowest side is ten feet high
Also - no shooting after beer.
On the fifty foot thing and 'interruption'.
I never shoot within fifty feet of a highway or a footpath, but I'm normally shooting high velocity .22 rimfire or a shotgun. I don't even like shooting in the same field as a footpath which goes along the banks of the River Tyne on one of my shoots. I always wait in that field if there is anybody within four hundred yards, until they are out of the way. However, in the context of the discussion here, Andrew has no need to worry at all. But take the example of a guy with a backyard and ten foot high brick walls. If there is a lane passing within twenty five feet of his firing position is he prevented from firing off his air pistol? Certainly not. No sane person could be distressed by it or interrupted, endangered or injured. As in all offenses, the individual's state of mind who claims he is a victim must be reasonable. Firing a shotgun in a backyard would not be a reasonable thing to do, even if the owner discharged it into a barrel of wet sand. That could easily and quite properly cause an interruption and a good degree of fright in any individual who was passing down the lane; an air pistol or air rifle could not. The clause we are debating here was really framed with proper firearms in mind - ones that make a lot of noise, like shot guns.
If we keep pussyfooting around like some of us do with a lot of hand wringing and bowing and scraping, soon the game of darts will be called into question as an unpleasant, dangerous, war-like and wholly unnecessary pursuit that should be banned from any place the public has access to. The logic of British law on these matters since the nineteen thirties leads there, be sure of it.
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Accupels.
In a .22 you need consistency which means careful manufacture, and you need as flat a trajectory as you can manage and that means light weight. Accupels are bang on for both. My Webley Axsor can put the all into a ragged hole at forty yards and more if there is no wind and I'm not shaking with excitement.
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The first shot seemed to hit him right in the head, dont know if he was still alive or just twitching but I gave him the second pellet to be sure. Nice experience tbh, rather different than hitting them with a shotgun, dont know which I prefered but the fact I had to be much more accurate did feel good as I carefully placed the shot and got a good kill afterwards
The twitching and flapping is typical even if they have been completely knackered by a perfect shot. I am shooting a lot of rabbits at the moment and even when their heads are completely exploded by a 1640 fps expanding bullet like a stinger - and I mean no head left to speak off, they will still jump and kick, even somersaulting over and over. There are a lot of nerves in the spinal chord that cause this kind of disturbing performance.
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Apart from gun clubs and ranges, at this time of year there are millions of rabbits causing havoc. Looking respectable and turning up with polite manners on a summer evening at a farm where there are rabbits can often end up with permission. I just got another 300 acres to exercise my CZ on the other night.
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Just to elabrate on the 50ft rule. This doesn't PREVENT you from shooting within 50ft of the centreline of the highway - It is also against the law, in England and Wales, to fire an air rifle within 50 feet of the centre of a highway if this results in someone being injured, interrupted or endangered. These offences could be committed, for example, when someone is shooting in their garden close to a road and the pellets ricochet onto the highway.
You would be well adivised to visit the BASC website for wealth of advice and information -
BASC Air Rifle Practice & Guidance
Safe shooting mate and have fun.
Absolutely right, and well said.
The fifty foot rule only applies to causing danger, interruption, or injury.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY YOU SHOULD ASK FOR OBJECTIONS OR PERMISSION.
YOU ARE ENTITLED to do this. You don't need to ask their permission to have sex either, so why this?
In my opinion it is a big mistake to imply that they can object or interfere in any way with your lawful pursuits.
Clearly, you will take responsible precautions to avoid missiles straying over the boundary. I used to and still occasionally shoot an air rifle in my much smaller garden. I set up screens so that I could not inadvertently discharge a pellet in an unwanted direction, and I shoot into a place where there can be no ricochets or penetration outside my garden.
Asking for permission or comment invites them to say no and it also implies that if they do object, you will reconsider your exercise of your right to enjoy your property in any lawful way you like.
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Ok - I'm sure you'll get on fine and I hope you enjoy it. My TX certainly put some rabbits in the pot and I expect it is still doing so with its new owner.
One thing - just make sure your hand never slips off the loading lever if you've pressed the button disabling the anti bear trap mechanism.. One red hot June day, my sweaty hand slipped and that lever came down like a man trap. It didn't hit me, but the shock wave running through the barrel did bend the silencer enough to make it clip the pellets until I straightened things out. I was glad it was the ordinary spring. I'd hate to have done that with a FAC spring in there. By the way, I pressed the button to stop a rabbit from hearing me. It was a second shot and the ratchety ratchety rat, was going to scare it away. I'd have been better off losing that shot than taking the risk I did.
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i dont think a tx200 will be quiet at fac levels,that action will make a good whack at higher levels,and an external silencer would be better fitted than a plenum silencer.
The reason I was going for .177 and legal limit is the land I can shoot rabbit on is relatively small and as far as I know not passed for FAC, I have been thinking about applying for my FAC for a while but for the time being an air rifle at legal limit should be ample. I have read the usual .177 v .22 argument and as far as I can see .177 seems to get the nod generally. My AA S400 was in .22 and at legal limit, (just), and had ample power for rabbits at the ranges i'm happy with which was 25-30 yards max'......I don't profess to be a brilliant shot beyound that range purely down to lack of practice, but the TX is a good candidate for tuning I believe should I decide to go down that route. Thanks for the advice
I had a TX200 HC and it was pretty good, but weight is an issue humping it around on a hot day. I shot a great many rabbits with it, but nothing like as many as I get with my Webley Axsor PCP. The difference in accuracy and ease of shooting is remarkable. It gives cloverleaf groups and ragged holes at 40 yards and knocks them dead in their tracks. I had a lot more success with the PCP mainly I suppose because the thing doesn't kick before the pellet is gone, so I can consistently hit them behind the ear. It doesn't kick at all of course. The thing about springers (which you probably already know, is that if you don't hold them exactly the same way every time, the POI is different. With air rifle power that can lead to wounded rabbits hopping away. You can learn this holding business, but why bother?
If you haven't already got a TX, I'd suggest you think about a PCP. They aren't all expensive. I'm thinking of selling mine since I have a CZ 425, and am thinking of getting a 17 hmr Henry Lever Action.
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Wish I could do stuff like that.
Now I'm retired I thought I'd see if I could enrol on a night class or some thing like it to learn. There aren't any. Plenty do twaddle like Media Studies though, and other such like foolery.
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Anybody thinking of parting with an immaculate Henry Varmint Express by any chance, before I go out and buy a new one?
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Velocitors: Last I bought (fortnight ago) cost me £4.50 for box of 50.
That's a quid a hundred cheaper. I might get some when I've expended the 300 I bought this week. When the rain stops, I'll get out and fire some off. Thanks for the info.
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Hi mate
I think that the general concensus amongst many rimfire shooters is that eley subs are generally very accurate. Get a box and try them. The best way to test ammo in my opinion is with the ferend supported but also with the stock supported to eliminate those distracting pulled shots. That way you get a true reflection of the guns ability with each ammo type..
Try eley though they are very good
steve b
It's all been said, but I completely agree - eley subs will deliver by far the best groups in my CZ too. I fired hundreds of them, about 800 without ever putting so much as a pull through down the barrel and they remained deadly accurate. If you want to blow the rabbits heads up at 70 yards, put a few CCI stingers down the barrel. They are nothing like as accurate as the Eley subs, but they don't half put them down and they shoot much flatter out to 75 yards, but if you want to hit a pea at 50 yards, it's the Eley sub every time.
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Have'nt used the Xpeditors, which to be honest I never knew of, but have used Stingers & Velocitors. The Velocitors give me better grouping than the Stingers in my CZ but neither group as tightly as Winnie subs, although good enough out to 80yds no bother. Certainly hit with some punch but noise issues on most of my shoots limits my use.
Regards : drut
How much are the Velocitors, drut?
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I bought some boxes of the above a few years ago. I still have some left. What I can recall is that they seemed to be pretty fast with good knock-down power.
I don't use them now as most of my rimfire shooting is with sub-sonic ammo.
I went into town to re-stock yesterday and they said they'd never had them there. I bought 300 stingers. Really expensive, but they certainly shoot flat and hard.
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Yep, pistol clubs were always more than just shooting clubs, there was no bickering (only at AGM's), just a crowd of like-minded people out for a morning's fun and a laugh (it's difficult to keep a straight face when using ol' blackie, if you've done it, you know what I mean). A lot of clubs vanished when pistols were banned, there was just not enough black powder users to keep them going. Why we were such a threat to national security, I shall never know.
Actually, I found a black powder club across in the Pennines. It's probably about sixty miles from me though, so it's hardly a local club like the old one. That was only ten miles away and shot three times a week, so you could usually find a chance to go if you wanted. I reckon I probably got lead poisoning in those days and that accounts for my current loopy interests. I spent a lot of time stooping over a pot of molten lead in those days and pouring the silver fluid into my bullet moulds. The .58 caliber one took an ounce and a quarter of lead to make one bullet.
Anyway, they seem to shoot all kinds of interesting guns over there, pistol ammo lever action rifles, as well as a variety of muzzle loading and cartridge black powder stuff.
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The velocity seems to be around 1500fps, but there are other xpediters that are about 1400 fps. The two versions of the round have different bullet weights. I have them both in the stuff he gave me. One lot - the faster ones have silver cases and the slower ones have brass cases. I think he may have had them lying around for years.
I shot off all the silver cased 1500fps ones and got onto the slower brass cased ones. These seem to be about 1400 fps - still hard hitting but with a lower POI. These ones really group well. I shot two half inch groups at 60 yards. I could have covered them both with my thumb nail. Rabbits heads were completely blown apart - just ears hanging on shreds of skull, even on 75 yard young rabbits and I mean half grown types not tiddlers.
Henry 17 HMR varmiter underlever rifle wanted
in Wanted
Posted
Thanks for that chaps. I just had a PM from him.
Cheers.