Jaguar Warrior

But why didn't you take your statutory coffee break, piebob? In doing this you aren't just letting yourself down, but your mates and the union. Young men died face down in the mud in Vietnam for the right to that coffee break, Dude! :mad:

I've thought a bit more about this, and we all appear to have been looking at things from the point of view of the 'innocent' drive washer. Now what if he had been the local OAP beating burglar the police had been looking for??? They could have rang him, using the number on the leaflet. The number could have been an untracebale one using a cheap pre-paid SIM card. Mr OAP-beater then says 'OK officer, I didn't realise' on the and disappears off forever. The address on the leaflet was a fake one. The police wouldn't be looking so good now, would they? Any police PW member could have pointed this out. I'm wondering if the attending officer also missed an opportunity to point this out and explain why the matter had to be handled in that specific way. I'd like to retract my comment about the issue being mishandled in a procedural way, as it now makes more sense to me.

Dear Bily dot, I write to inform you that we, The Nigerian Pilice force, have finally found out the identity of the 'infimous Paypal, ebey, and skipe scammer Dr. Mtobo. It was your uncle. He was maskerading as a Nigerian Doctor. As his only heir, we hold you wholy responsible for the $15 million. Transfer what money you have left to our bank account in Nigeria and we will let the matter go.

I do agree with UKPoacher that we are collectively to blame. I just dont see how it is through the voting system though. We get a limited choice of issues to choose the party to vote for. If two parties wanted to abolish taxes and the third just clamp down on 'blame culture' issues, I think I could hazard a guess as to who would win and come second. Maybe the collective responsibility comes through not applying enough consumer pressure to the 'blame culture' issue. The main losers are the people who pay out. No-one loses if they dont have an accident so they are untikely to lobby for change. Successful claimants are unlikely to want it to change either. Is this 'blame culture' costing me anything? I don't know. It does seem to make Britain a less nice place to live in than it used to be though....

This second paragraph is littered with GENIUS!!! Its a pity you are way too smart and objective to be an MP though. We could do with more people like you in the House of Commons.

Sorry gordon, I wasn't clear. I only meant at times when they think that an offence has been committed I just reported my experience Gordon. I'm glad yours has been better. In all my firearms dealings with the police (not accused of anything at the time) I have received excellent treatment. In all work related dealings with the police (not accused of anything at the time), ive had excellent treatment. In all social dealings with the police, off duty, (not accused of anything at the time)I have had excellent treatment. Every time I have, however briefly, been a 'suspect' I have been treated rudely, as if i am guilty until proven otherwise, other than minor routine motoring stops. Routine meaning not expecting you to have done anything wrong. Its the last bit i find unprofessional. Oh, there is one exception, when the police recognise me personally. Then i'm treated as nice as pie, and told to be on my way. Its good to get polite treatment, but even that is unprofessional.

I still think my interpretation is the likeliest of several, and is the one the writer intended. I think the writer is trying to refer to legitimate people like Betterware, Avon and lots of other similar companies, be it delivering brochures, leaflets, catalogues, freebies or whatever. It is trying to clarify who can legitimately be there, not the goods they individually deliver. Sorry, my lights still on. JW

Vince, I think there are two issues here. 1) If your friend leaflet-dropped in a 'no cold calling' area, and it was wrong to do so, then he got a telling off for breaching a rule. 2) If he got a telling off for 'cold calling' a few days later, this would appear to be wrong since he was invited. I don't think that is what has happened here though. I think there's confusion because the police spoke to him on his invited visit. I think this was just a way of getting him back to tell him off in public so the neighbours could credit the police for taking some obvious, visible action. I find this a bit sneaky and underhand and think it reflects badly on the police. I agree that they could have rang him and this is the option I think all of us would have preferred. In this case, the police and the complainant took the option they preferred. Another example of the police doing what looks best rather than what IS best. Now your friend holds resentment towards the police, and if I were in his shoes, i would too. They could have sorted the problem without this resentment. In my experience, the police treat everyone as if they are at fault without getting enough details before forming a judgement and later end up looking the fool. JW

Look, I'm just trying to be objective here. If the interpretation that some of you want to use, which is that leaflet drops don't count, be my guest. If that was the case though, if i was a burglar I'd just walk about with leaflets and there would be nothing that any of you that live in 'no cold calling zones' could do about it, including the police. Now that wouldn't make sense would it? I have a nasty Rhode Island Red cockerel that means cold callers don't stay around long. I rarely have chance to get to the door. LOL

What I think is more significant, and something i'm taking into consideration, is that nowhere does it say that leaflet drops are not cold calling. I'm putting some weight on what WASN'T said as what is said, but poorly worded. I'm still waiting to be corrected using some form of logic, rather than repeating your pre-formed viewpoint. Sorry DocW, you've forgotten the mantra: Snap diagnoses are only impressive when 100% correct. Try looking at it from the point of view of the writer. I'm confident that then the lights will come on and someone will be at home... The aim is to stop strangers wandering about on the estate. People dropping leaflets is just the thing they are trying to stop, but not the activities of Betterware, Avon and other larger companies. ATB JW

DocW quotes with bold: The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. I think DocW is misreading the english. I think that it is intended to be read as: The zone is not designed to prevent people from distributing leaflets or catalogues, such as Betterware or the “Avon Lady”. It is also not designed to stop people on legitimate business such as gas, electricity and water meter readers. Betterware and Avon are national, reputable firms. Correct me if I'm wrong. JW

but sitsinhedges...where do we get the ones you recommend? You can't tell if there is no photo on the website, and even is there is then the angle is usually wrong. Ive just heated up mine with a lighter, and I can get wax out onto a piece of paper. They fall apart when heated, so I presume the was is there to bind them. I did think the commercial hard wad in eley .410 cartridges was bitumen based. However ive just used a lighter on those and i think they are just minature versions of the ones i have. The ends are also a thin black plastic film. It burns like plastic, chews like plastic and looks like plastic. The made to order waxed wads from wads incorporated appeared to me to be wax coated, for muzzle loading. They are expensive too. If they are only coated, they might not hold together any better than the ones you have.

My initial thought was that I wouldn't be too worried about the fibre wads exploding as it would make them disperse better. Then I'm thinking about my moderator on the 'Hushberg'. I can see at least three ways in which they might explode. The first is if they get SO compressed at the time of peak pressure that they microfragment but still hold together until they leave the barrel. The second is that they get equally compressed but hold together fine. They then leave the barrel, RAPIDLY expand, and explode. The third is a combination of the two. A fourth could be that if they microfragment, gas could be forced into the wad and it is this that causes the explosion when they exit the barrel. I would be concerned about all of the above except option two where the wad holds together. It may be that the explosion can begin at the start of the baffled section of the moderator, but the wads i use are different to yours. I'd like to avoid using the ones you have just in case. My wads are 20 and 18 mm fibre from Folkestone Engineering. They are quite a dark fibre, though I have seen darker. They have an annoying plastic disc at either end, which makes them semi-degradable in my eyes - grrr! I had presumed that the plastic was to stop shot biting into the wad, and that it is on both ends to save us from checking the wad is the right way round. But then we all know how dodgy presuming things is ..... From various websites selling wads, I had got the impression that the waxed wads were for use with blackpowder to lubricate the barrel and to make fouling easier to remove So...where did you get your exploding wads? Sits - are these plastic covered wads 'Diana' wads? Does anyone know where I could get fibre wads with paper on the ends? What is the real purpose of waxed wads? Cheers JW

Deny essex, I'm banging my head on the same wall as you on this one, mate. I don't think you ever said it. Most posters just aren't reading your posts properly. Imagine we are in the dock and they are the jury. They would be blaming us for El Nino too. LOL At least Doc Holliday read your post...the rest probably just the previous post. Too much bother to pick up the mouse and go back a page........ Its really sad, but the greeks sussed out logic 2 1/2 thousand years ago. Now its almost forgotten. :unsure: JW

Thanks Cookoff, I tried to clarify in line 8, post 8 with "I'm looking for a BB load". :o No-one batted an eyelid when I suggested changing 6 shot for BB in the Vectan AS thread, in fact the main discussion was about the alteration of wad height. Is it a worry now? Cookoff- a 28 gram cartridge will have ? 50 pellets, 20 pellets in a 30" circle at 30yards is classed as 1/4. i will be very amazed if 5 got there ! :blink: :o I make it 81 pellets by hand count, its italian Siarm BB, slightly smaller, and probably an advantage in patterning. Tomorrow, i'm going to shoot those 28 gram, 81 BB 22.5 gr AS carts and if i don't put at least 35 pellets in a 30" circle, i'll be marking it down and claiming a refund off sitsinhedges The gun is moderated (half) choke. My glass is well past half full LOL JW

I just wanted to say thanks for the excellent feedback from my 28g BB AS fibre load question. heres my update: Sitsinhedges suggested reducing the published AS load from 24gr to 22.5 gr and FC backed this up. :thumbs: Yesterday I tested out both loads and I also made up a 17 gr AS load, based on previous threads I had printed off about replicating commercial subsonics. This was a suggestion by Sitsinhedges to raise from 15 gr to 17 gr for a subsonic fibre load. The 22.5 gr were not ridiculously loud through my Mossberg Hushpower and had a moderate kick. Sits and FC - spot on target!! The 17 gr were nice and quiet and with low recoil. They would be great for humane dispatch of trapped or wounded animals where discretion is advised. I still have no chronograph but I think they match hushpower and gamebore subsonics in sound and recoil. The 24 gr load, as published were another matter. Flames! I kid you not, 6" of flames and a fair kick. It is noticeably louder than the 22.5 gr load, and gave the Missus tinnitus for half an hour Would I be right in thinking that around 23gr Vectan AS behind a 28g fibre wad load is the upper sensible limit for that powder? JW

Cake wants a Vectan A1 34 gram load in #6. he's the OP. Me - I'm looking for opinions on the three formulas I do have (post 8), plus any others out there. I'm looking for a BB load, but i have to be flexible on lead load weight. I have no idea how loads will pattern on my modfied choke 'hushberg'. A 42 gram BB load is no use to me if it puts less pellets in a target than a 28g load due to scatter. I'm not too worried about wasting powder as i won't be making up that many of this type of load. I want maximum kinetic energy hitting a target. Plus world peace and more happiness in the world. JW

* JW - you are being very generous, by my reckoning i'm a long way behind 'the rest of us'. You know I refer to FC as Jedi Master, but the poor guy can't answer every post and i put a lot of weight on the views of his 'reloader wannabees' too. :o After all, it was YOU who suggested tweaking the CG data for another powder. Right you were too! Ive been back and added edits because if i delete the mention of AS it will still linger in other posts I can't edit. Now, ignore everything I've said, ever and look just at post 8. Three formulas. Any views? If not, I'll make up all three and try to form some judgement. I can't speak for cake the OP. JW

Cookoff, I think you've mixed up the AS data with the A1 data. Only the second part of the quote was AndyH, talking about A1. Could you go back and do some editing, as I'm not sure if you said what you wanted to say? It might read that you are suggesting upping the AS 28g load to 27gr when 24gr is already giving flames. Sorry Guys, thought I'd clarified it. Both me and cake are looking for opinions on the heavier 30+gram A1 loading options. Ive listed the three options I found above. Ta, JW

Nothing strange about it at all, it is human nature to think the 'grass is greener on the other side'. Or put another way, form an opinion without being balanced, fair and having gone to trouble to seek out the true facts. Like most of this thread's comments so far in my view. ATB JW

Sadly, when your rights are being attacked and YOU are victimised because you are a minority, and the government doesn't care about the loss of your vote, I'll still stick up for you, mate. Just as long as it isn't supporting another group to be victimised and your issue doesn't hurt anyone else. So kite flying, wearing womens clothes and fly tying count, but animal and racial abuse won't. Refusing medical insurance for doctors who drink, smoke, climb, would count even though I might think doctors 'ought to know better', or disagree in principle. Doesn't this make you feel a bit guilty though? JW

I try to avoid controversial posts but here goes....... People are making valid points and useful opinions but we are hardly being objective and fair are we? I'm with the OP here, not because i'm a smoker, but because I think he has fair points. He is making these points as a 'Jack who isn't alright' and as such has thought about the issues. Most other responders are 'I'm alright Jacks' or IAJs. I think the comments are a bit rich coming from the IAJs, as you are part of a minority too. Shooters. You don't like being treated unfairly as a minority then do you? You probably objected to the handgun ban and wouldn't like it if the government taxed lead cartridges, openly admitting it is being unfair to force users to change their opinions and behavior, would you? It is nanny state again. I'm an adult and don't need a nanny! Some democracy we live in - the right to mark a cross on apaper once every 4 years, and where majority opinion rules. Most pepole don't play golf, so is this a reason to ban it and hand the land to dog walkers? The OP is being reasonable and balanced in my view, just one of many. He isn't objecting to a rise, just the extortionate amount. Thanks to the smoking ban, smokers aren't affecting non-smokers any more so 'your alright Jack'! Try to behave accordingly. You don't need a nanny state - you just need to put yourself in the other persons shoes and play fair. So there! - (stamps foot like a petulant child LOL) JW

Data I have: (CG CD v9, 18 months old) Both use CX2000 primers, fibre wads, 70mm PT tubes and vectan A1, but lead weights vary: 1) 27 gr A1, CX2000, 3mm OP, 21mm fibre, 3mm felt, 28g 2.4mm size 7 shot, extrap muzzle V 1203 fps, 464.8 bar 2) 26 gr A1, CX2000, 3mm OP, 18mm fibre, 36g 3.3mm size 3 shot, eMV 1083fps, 646.5 bar There is also a CX50 formula without an OP card - can anyone explain?? 3) 26 gr A1, CX50, 21mm fibre, 5mm cork, 32g 2.3mm size 7.5 shot, eMV 1243 fps 549 bar but uses CX50, which I have also. The shot size conversions are mine, in italics. I'm looking for a BB load and later (relax for now) a tin load, as its the only non toxic I can use (hushpower, modified fixed choke = no hard shot, no long wads, have poultry and geese so no plastic). I'll probably try all 3 and do some patterning. Any opinions on which would pattern best in a 'Hushberg' ? Cheers, JW

Thanks for the replies I think I've caused confusion though and potentially stalled Cakes thread. I'll try to clarify: Both Cake and myself have bought similar consumables at around the same time, and the same Lee Loadall II. We also bought both Vectan A1 and AS. Last week, I posted my plan to go with a CG load - 28g BB (1st priority - a useable fox load after meeting an human habituated fox about 1/2 mile away) 70mm PT case CX2000 24 gr AS 4mm OP card Fibre wad (trimmed to 13.1mm in the end, to give a good Lee Loadall II crimp) OS card (Xmas cards) FC and Sitsinhedges suggested the 24 gr AS was a bit high and try 22.5 gr. I just wanted to report how it worked with these wads and BB. I'll be going with 22.5 gr now. I made up some 17 gr 28 gram BB also. All 3 28 grams lead. Meanwhile, both myself and Cake are looking for an heavier load and know we will need to use Vectan A1. Because thats what we bought. So, does anyone have any favourite 32, 34 and 36 gram loads using our fibre wads, 70 mm PT tubes, CX2000 ? Sits and FC saved me going ahead and making up 100 dragons breath dirty cartridges according to a published formula - cheers Guys

Perfect timing! I was just about to ask the very same question, after excellent feedback from my 28g BB AS fibre load question. Sitsinhedges suggested reducing the published AS load from 24gr to 22.5 gr and FC backed this up. :thumbs: Yesterday I tested out the 3 types as I also made up a 17 gr AS load, based on previous posts I had printed off about replicating commercial subsonics. The 22.5 gr were not ridiculously loud through my Mossberg Hushpower and had a moderate kick. Sits and FC - spot on target!! The 17 gr were nice and quiet and with low recoil. They would be great for humane dispatch of trapped or wounded animals where discretion is advised. I still have no chronograph but I think they match hushpower and gamebore subsonics in sound and recoil. The 24 gr load, as published were another matter. Flames! I kid you not, 6" of flames and a fair kick. Would I be right in thinking that 23gr behind a 28g fibre wad load is the upper sensible limit for that powder? Edit: ie Vectan AS, 28g load. So Gurus, would you recommend any change from the published loads above in Vectan A1? Edit: Ive added three formulas in a later post #8 And Cake, is it OK to PM you? No point in both of us re-inventing the wheel. JW