Mungler

That was my answer. To suggest that no one can support Ukraine or be outraged at the Russian invasion unless an equivalence of outrage has been displayed for earlier wars / atrocities committed across the planet is bizarre and the strangest way of looking at the current invasion and widespread mass murder of a civilian population . You may sneer away - I made the case for the morality of Putin’s war about 100 pages back. Indeed, following the train of argument through, our hands tied and we are obliged to sit back and watch Putin rampage through whichever countries he chooses because errrrm we didn’t get sufficiently cross when the Chinese went into Tibet?

So, no one can be outraged at Russia invading Ukraine and starting a war on mainland Europe, unless they have demonstrated earlier equivalent outrage for other wars and conflicts across the globe. What is wrong with you? Blimey, more ‘look back there’ and ‘look over there’. The reason the shills don’t want to look at the here and now of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (and the subsequent and on going mass murder and torture of the Ukrainian population) is because it’s really awful, morally reprehensible and indefensible. Crack on with the ‘look, what about over there’. It’s what the Kremlin pay you for, right? 😆

Irrelevant to the invasion and war to hand. Set a new thread up. We can then also discuss just how many wrongs make it right for Russia to invade a neighbour, start a war and murder and torture the populous.

In other news, more inexplicable accidents and misfortunes in Russia. https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/13/another-russian-energy-boss-has-mysteriously-died-in-hospital-17555758/?ito=article.mweb.share.top.link Who needs democracy and a free judiciary when you’ve got Chepiga and Mishkin 😆

They’re nuts. They’re too far down the free thought rabbit warren where all tunnels lead to NATO and the US 😆 Did Putin explore all political avenues, was Russia under threat, were there other alternatives to starting an invasion and a war, did the Russians have to shell to rubble civilian targets, even as of today do the Russians have to shell power stations and attack civil infrastructure far behind the battle lines - the list is obvious and long and you’ll get no sense off about 3 or 4 on here. I still don’t think it is clear that Putin’s invasion was motivated by some spat inside Ukraine - it’s what a lot of people have alighted to after the event to make some sense of it, but that’s not what the Kremlin have been saying along the way. Some people are just a bit broken.

1. I'd rather be labelled a defender of Ukraine than a brainwashed Putin shill 2. the point I was making about the pipeline is that: (a). it doesn't matter in the scheme of the invasion, war and needless Russian slaughter of civilians; and, (b). if the Putin shills refuse to accept any Putin culpability for anything ever (as they have steadfastly done on this thread and others) then lets jump to the end where they refuse to accept even the possibility it was Russia and so we all might as well agree that it was the lizard people, NATO, the US, Israel, Nazis or whatever. As per 2(a) it's not moving my needle - invading neighbouring Ukraine and murdering Ukrainian civilians is a more pressing concern.

1. That's a first world problem. No matter how bad I think my gas bill will be this winter, at least I won't be waking up to find a Russian tank in my living room and my family raped and murdered by Putin's army of trolls. 2. Well, we know how the Israelis love the Iranians. If Russia wants to send hoards of killers drones into civilian areas then Ukraine seeking defensive measures and assistance from others has to be expected surely.

What I have learnt from this thread is that if the Kremlin shills won't accept the Western security services report on the Salisbury poisonings / murders and the naming of Mishkin and Chepiga (Putin's favorite assassins who have in the interim been very busy elsewhere) then there is no chance of their accepting any Russian blame for the pipe explosion regardless of the weight of evidence and so any discussion on the topic is pointless. Further, the destruction of a pipeline remains irrelevant to Putin's prior invasion of and war with Ukraine and the continuing murder of Ukrainian civilians.

Corrr you Putin apologists really do want to bend over backwards to rationalize and forgive an invasion and mass murder. As for the pipeline being blown up - yes, all very interesting but rather after the event and distracting from the war and invasion bit. Indeed, none of the excuses or "look over there what about that" changes the whole unnecessary invasion and mass murder of civilians bit. And as for blaming the USA, that's brilliant. No mention of Putin of course because it's all the fault of the US. That's crackers. If Russia wanted to fair better on the world stage and sustain less sanctions, well they could have tried for fewer invasions. But no, of course, it's all the Yanks fault 🙂

As fascinating as the history of Grenada may be and as interesting the destruction of a pipeline could be: 1. this all needlessly started with Russia invading its neighbour, starting a war (which will soon see its first anniversary) and continuing to murder civilians on a daily basis as we have seen on the news this very night (which I assume your Kremlin handlers will tell you to claim to be more msm lies and imperialist propaganda) 2. everything gets better with Russian troops and tanks departing the occupied regions And in the meantime the war is needlessly prolonged because Iran supplies military equipment to Russia, and whilst Iran conducts a proxy war against Ukraine, NATO and the US (you see what I did there 😉😆). Edit This is too good. I have found the Darth Lavrov account too! It’s genius.

Oh and Iran really should stop supplying weapons to Russia - it would be over a lot sooner if they didn’t, right? 😉

You say whataboutery and then link to Grenada? Talk about irony (and obscurity) 😆😆 Yep, being frozen out of the civilised world for a decade hasn’t helped Russia keep up with technology or modern warfare and it’s only Iran who will now supply them. Indeed, no sign of the Chinese helping yet which is telling. Most of the Iranian drones are getting shot down (unsurprisingly the Israelis have a solution) but the anti aircraft batteries are around military installations whereas Putin is sending the drones into high density civilian areas, which is nice. Must have run out of poetry? In fairness, no one could work out why the Russians were squandering their limited stocks of expensive guided / cruise missiles to take out the odd civilian - the ratio at one stage was 1 No $250,000 missile for a hairdresser or nursery school teacher. Master tactician and all that. Just as well; after all, they can’t keep the eye wateringly expensive SU-34’s in the air can they? 😆😆

I’m not even sure what purpose tanks have any more in the face of cheap drones, like the Iranian drones murdering civilians in Kiev today. Indeed, contrary to what the Kremlin has been pumping out and the other BS on this thread it turns out those war mongering Russian invaders haven’t just been using poetry and harsh words…

Approximately $40-50 million. Mind you, that’s probably a Zelensky lie backed by NATO, right 😆 And it didn’t explode in a fireball, those media reports being another propaganda exaggeration - the plane only needed a new front bumper and some scratches polished out. .

The irony. And on the day a Russian SU-34 crashes into a block of flats in a massive fireball. I wonder what the manufacturers recommended price is on one of those?

Ah no. All you need to know is this 😆

You’re right. When Putin invaded and started a war, the Russian troops were only equipped with kindness, poetry and the rare harsh word for the non compliant. All the blown up blocks of flats and dead people were staged by Zelensky and NATO. As for nuclear weapons. Blimey, when and where on earth did Russia get those. With this new development everyone should pull stumps on Ukraine right now and start talking to Estonia about getting the red carpet ready. Dear Lord there’s some nonsense on this thread. Still loving Darth Putin

She’s done and everyone knows it. What now? Total mess.

When the mini budget was announced I thought "brave and radical and aimed at promoting growth". But when it came out that it was totally un-costed and she hadn't even discussed it with her cabinet all our worst fears were confirmed and the markets panicked unsurprisingly. Imagine delivering a budget on the day that perhaps only 2 people knew about before. What on earth? Bring back Boris eh?

Agreed

It’s a double edged sword. Liz was comprehensive educated and elected by the Tory membership but she’s about to be axed by the party machine. Part of politics is understanding that if you want to implement a policy then you need to carry people along with you - her budget, she should have leaked it to all the right people, taken consensus from the markets and so on, then pressed the button. She didn’t do any of that and the panic reaction was what we have just seen. So, maybe you do need someone with the degree in politics to have the better understanding of how the big machine works. I’m just going to vote for whoever implements the lowest taxes and leaves me with the most amount of my own money. I am coming round to the notion that western democracy is a mirage. If Truss gets hoofed out but weeks after the conclusion of a months long drawn out voting process where she got elected by the party faithful then what was the point of that? The only way to establish democracy is to then hold a general election and that’s Labour in - that’s not what the Conservative party faithful voted for. Total mess.

How so? They set a mini budget, then followed a mass of U-turns, another party implosion and here comes Labour with a landslide and everyone else facing a nasty nasty recession. As for the Tory party - they’ve allowed themselves to be controlled by the whims of a fickle media, have squandered a massive seat lead and now deserve to be sent into the wilderness to sort themselves out. I just hope that we have the full 2 years before Labour arrive and make what is a terrible situation far worse. Keep an eye out for contagion in Europe and gilts trader jumper off buildings. All confidence in government debt has now gone and wherever I look the future looks totally bleak. Deep joy.

‘Do not believe anything until the Kremlin deny it’. TM Darth Putin. And as for not looking good for Zelensky - well, he’s still there 235 days later.

But that quote, like all Kremlin quotes, is of course a lie or nonsense. So this war is about what again? I am confused - Nazis, drug dealers, nato, Donbass, Peter the Great? It’s a lucky dip depending what week it is. .

Oh give over. How about a criticism for starting a war, invading Ukraine and causing the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people? Your criticism of Putin is up there with ‘he tries too hard and cares too much’. Pppffftt. There was never a deal in March and here’s the FT link https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-d375-4817-be67-802b7fa77ef1 I liked this bit where they say ‘war’ and not ‘special military operation’ 😉👊 Putin showed no sign of compromise on Wednesday, vowing Moscow would achieve all of its war aims in Ukraine. And that’s why this now feels like arguing over the colour of orange juice.