12gauge82

I think you raise some very good points. Your last paragraph is interesting as you've eluded to the future for our military. I genuinely don't think there's been a more dangerous time as far as conflict goes. War used to be man on man and there would be lulls in the battle of relative safety. With drone warfare, thermal vision and AI on the horizon, not to mention near peers catching up and the West falling apart by the destruction of national pride and a great number of people with allegiance to other countries rather than their own, it's a dangerous time for our boys and girls.

I genuinely believe we have the best forces in the world, they're underfunded, too few in number and rarely get the recognition they deserve, but have always pulled it out of the bag when needed. It's a national scandal our successive governments have allowed them to be so chronically underfunded and nothing angers me more when they are sent to do a job and years later are hung out to dry for it once the government doesn't need them anymore.

Your question is so ridiculous it doesn't merit a response but I will try. You can have an opinion about an unjust war without having to go and fight for it, by your logic, as a Putin supporter why haven't you gone and fought for Russia, you could join the N Korean group and launch one of their ww1 style raids? What about if your 90, are you excused from taking arms up then for believing Russias invasion is wrong or do they also have to fight? And finally, for all you know people may already have seen action out there, they might be unlikely to share it on here for a large number of reasons, but your question is crass.

What an idiotic comment. There are people on this forum who have fought for our country. Who the hell are you to pass comment on what people should do. Totally agreed. The time to put a peace keeping force was at the beginning, obviously with the USA, with current casualty rates our armed forces would be wiped out in a matter of weeks on our own.

Hardly a revelation what else did you expect them to do?

Believe me, I'm very well aware of the atrocities carried out in the East of Ukraine under Zelensky, the virtual American backed coup that took place to insert Zelensky, and get rid of Russian sympathetic leadership and by that virtue, the expansion of Nato that would likely spread to Russia borders and why Putin would feel aggrieved at that. But to then launch a full blown military invasion of Ukraine costing a million lives is not a justified response and Putin also has his ulterior motives that I covered on this thread earlier. The very fact that Ukraine (and yes I know they used western equipment and backing to do it), defeated Russians initial invasion shows the strength of feeling in the rest of Ukraine at not wanting to be under Russian rule. All in all, yes Zelensky bad, Putin also bad (I'd argue worse but will leave that out for now). But what Putin has done by launching that invasion and still continue it, is utterly unjustified. I'm sure Russia had all the same excuses when they held on to East Germany and all the other countries after Ww2, thank God we weren't so divided back then, military spending aside, the UK hasn't got the cohesion to fight a large scale war anymore.

I've mentioned above about Ukraines behaviour but how does destroying a further million or more lives help exactly? It's well documented the Iraq weapons of mass destruction excuse for the war there was based on lies and I'd think it fair to say the majority of British people believe Tony Blair to be a war criminal. But how does the UK being wrong there make it okay that Russia is currently carrying out an even bigger atrocity in Ukraine? Whataboutary is exactly what you seem to be arguing. There are basic undeniable facts in this and it's it's most basic level, Russia invaded Ukraine which has led to nearly a million dead or injured. There is nothing that has led up to this war that justifies it's existence.

I totally agree with much of what you say. I'm fully aware Ukraine is not utopia full of rainbows. It has serious problems with corruption and there have almost certainly been human rights violations. But to then equate that with Putins invasion being for anything other than Putins desire to strengthen Russia and make land grabs is equally ridiculous. At the bottom of all this Russia had no right to invade Ukraine and has caused incredible death with one of the most brutal wars since Ww2.

No the conflict in those areas started in 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea and pro Russian separatists declared independence from Ukraine in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, which led to conflict between Ukraine and the separative groups who were being propped up by Russia.

The country that crossed the others border with weapons.

No absolutely not. But 2 wrongs don't make a right and starting a war that has destroyed over 1 million lives is not the correct response.

Trump is loved here too by a very large number of people, despite taking a dent with his recent behaviour towards Zelensky, I'm probably safe in saying he is far better liked than our own Prime minister. I was very greatful to Vance for bringing up the aparant assault on our freedom of speech. I agree with you regarding Ukraines corruption.

Your view is too simplistic and doesn't give Putin credit for his cunning. After it's annexation of Crimea Russia attempted to build on its control and influence on the area before moving on, it didn't want to bite off more than it could chew so to speak. It supported local disenters and created instability using unmarked troops in eastern Ukraine. And critically Putin probably wanted to gauge international and Nato reactions which was very poor before launching a further land grab, which is why it's so important we don't allow him to succeed in his goals this time.

Again, due to your clear dislike for Ukraine your failing to recognise the difference between an aggressor who can choose their method of attack, when and where it will happen and pick on a smaller weaker opponent, in this case Ukraine And A defender who has no choice in any of the above and if they want to survive have no choice but to make do with the limited resources and manpower they have.

I think focusing on a dislike for Zelensky and the wrongs or rights of what he has done, or how corrupt Ukraine is or isn't misses the huge elephant in the room which is that Russia has launched an invasion of a sovereign country, despite Putins thinly vield excuses has his eyes on a land grab and would love nothing more than to reclaim the land lost by the USSR and allowing him to succeed will only in enbolden China and others. As for Trump, I agree with many of his policies, I agree Europe including the UK has utterly neglected it's duty to fund their own militarys especially in the case of some EU countries and ensure Europe's safety I totally understand why our friends in America are sick of us relying on them and their money. But Trumps behaviour the other day was totally out of order and will only fuel our collective enemy's confidence to challenge the existing world order, where the USA has the most to loose.

For a number of reasons. Because I've never had someone in my home that if I threw them out world peace could be at steak. Assuming Zelensky was being rude and it wasn't just a language barrier, Trump and his team were also rude Using you analogy, If you did have a rude guest would you get in a shouting match with them, or would you just not invite them again.

As for the purposed theory Putin has invaded ror the altruistic purpose of saving his people being killed in the East of Ukraine, it's laughable, he's currently pumping forced conscripts and his own people by the hundreds of thousands into a meat grinder to gain land mile by mile. It's almost WW1 tactics, anyone that cared about there people would not be doing that for such a futile task. Russia has done this all before, under the USSR it occupied Europe as far as East Germany not long ago. Putin is a lier, if he had the military might to do it, he'd find reasons to push all the way back to Germany again and who knows where or if he'd stop. I think some inderviduals on here need to wake up.

Well I don't claim to know with any certainty, I'm really not sure Zelensky would rip off billions of his own countrys defence spending, for all his faults he is a man who refused to leave and run for safety when his country was invaded, he clearly cares about keeping Ukraine out of Russian hands.

A bit of an exaggeration perhaps, but probably not far off if you include casualties. I hope we can both agree the losses on both sides are horrendous and would have been completely avoided if Putin hadn't launched an invasion.

So in Putins utopian efforts, to save Ukraine and rid it of Nazis, he's started a war that has cost 1000,000 lives and counting. Even if you were right in your assessment of why Putin has gone to war (your not). On what planet can you look at that situation and think logically that it is the right thing to do and Russia shouldn't stop this insane war immediately?

For the exact reason you have raised. It's not black and white. Ukraine is a very corrupt country, there has been wrongs committed by the Ukranian government, but ultimately, just like it was wrong for the West to invade Iraq, despite Saddam Hussain being a vile dictator, the medicine can't be worse than the cure and invading Iraq caused many needless deaths around the world, far more than if we'd left it alone, it destabilized the middle East and opened the door for ISIS, a far worse entity than Hussain. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified, has caused over a million deaths and has solved almost nothing, that's why I and most sane people are against it.

I think you are viewing some of these issues in a very one dimensional manner. China is very much a problem for the USA and a growing one at that. Imagine a world where Russia controlled Europe and China the rest. If you noticed one of the thing Zelensky said that angered Trump the most was telling him that he would feel it in the future. China is projected to overtake the USA both economically and militarily in the near future. The USA is going to need all the friends it can get if it doesn't want to go the same way as Great Britain and they don't want to live in a world where the main players are no longer democracys. Trump accused Zelensky of playing with WW3, Trump is currently playing with a new world order.

If you look back, I agree that Ukraine is slowly loosing, despite the narrative you will see in the media being to the contrary. But that's hardly surprising when you look at Ukrainian manpower vs Russias. So to get this things right, you believe it's all Ukraines fault for continuing the war, because they won't give up due to being invaded and Russia is in the right because they're prepared to let Ukraine keep the bits of their country that the Russians don't want. Please explain this warped logic so I can make heads or tail of this 🤔 I'm not sure Farage supports any of this, if anything he's been a little quiet on the subject, which says to me he's against Trumps outburst but doesn't want to sour relations.

Who's for continuing the war? Ukraine can't carpitulate under anything Russia wants. If there's to be negotiated peace, Russia is going to have to show movement to. Let me ask you, what exactly is Russia prepared to compromise on, because I've seen them offer nothing at all?

Again I agree, we have a political party that is on the verge of gaining serious power and has made headway no other party has seen in 100 years. They have massive support and would agree with the vast majority of policies the USA under Trump has bought in. The UK while in my opinion not going far enough has met for the most part it's NATO responsibilitys of 2.5% gdp while other European nations have neglected that fact, Germany in particular. The political organisation the EU (which is not Europe) has destabilized Europe by allowing mass uncontrolled migration and an almost communist idioligy towards state control and protectionist resource pooling. The UK has been a strong counterbalance to that. The UK and USA are basically brothers in arms and have had Americas backs on matters of influence involving Europe although imo not as much as the population of the UK would like, we have been repeatedly ignored by our ruling parties neglecting their promises to those who voted them into power, (one of the reasons reform under Farage is gaining so much momentum, just like Trump did.) But while I agree with all you say on Europe including the UK not doing enough (I don't know when you say Europe you include the UK or not). Trumps words yesterday were out of order, there are other ways he could have got his point across.