GunQuarter

I'm not trying to discredit anything. I am merely pointing out the short comings of an alternative on the market. The Royal Society for Chemistry describe Bismuth as brittle. https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/83/bismuth It does mix with tin but doesn't blend at an isotope level. This is fact and proven. It is why Bio Ammo can't be pushed at the same velocities as lead (FACT) and if it is, it starts to break up. We have invented something that is as lead like as you can get. For the shooter who wants a quick cartridge and use of chokes, it will suit them. It gives people choice. You are free to make yours.

It is plastic or cupped wad but people do achieve this in other ways. i.e some coat in tin (still shatters). The CIP guidelines are below. Only Hortonium and Lead fall into type A shot at the moment. Early steel shot was coated but they've moved away from that with better wad technology. The latest wads are ok but when the barrels get hot the wads melt and have to be cleaned out of the barrel with boiling water. The document I've snipped below is one part of 47 pages and I've read the lot two or three times.

I've put all the information into one page on our website. Including a drop test video. We've tested the hell out of this, it works perfectly and it just needs ammunition manufacturers to pick up the phone and order it (after March next year as machines being built now). https://www.hortonguns.com/?page_id=819 If you want it, contact Hull, Eley, Lyalvale and Gamebore and ask when it is available.

It is really simple and not that hard to understand. The chap is about 80 years old and noticed the bulge, didn't look in the barrel. It is the worst we've seen. The gun was made in the early 1900's and it is not a semi auto made in Turkey. Instructions stamped on the barrels, you do make me chuckle! I've put all the information into one page on our website. Including a drop test video. We've tested the hell out of this, it works perfectly and it just needs ammunition manufacturers to pick up the phone and order it (after March next year as machines being built now). https://www.hortonguns.com/?page_id=819 If you want it, contact Hull, Eley, Lyalvale and Gamebore and ask when it is available.

I've put all the information into one page on our website. Including a drop test video. We've tested the hell out of this, it works perfectly and it just needs ammunition manufacturers to pick up the phone and order it (after March next year as machines being built now). https://www.hortonguns.com/?page_id=819 If you want it, contact Hull, Eley, Lyalvale and Gamebore and ask when it is available.

Thanks and a very nice example of a provincial boxlock which should be preserved. This is why we wanted to create an alternative, for people like you. If you can't shoot it, we can't repair it. Simple reasoning really.

A 28 gram load in shot size 3 is c180 pellets. We have tested that at 55 metres with 1/2 choke and it patterns brilliantly. On a Hull pattern plate like attached, in the outline of the pheasant had 15 pellets in it (1 in head, two in chest and rest in abdomen and wings) and would have killed any feathered game without question. That was out of a cartridge pushing 1500fps+ at the muzzle with fibre wad. We've done over 50 pattern plate tests. Plus drop tests. plus cartridge pressure tests (not selling cartridges but need to know shot can cope with pressure). We really wouldn't have gone to trouble of patenting it and now doing all the hard sales if we weren't sure it 100% worked.

We know that and it won't suit everyone. But if you choose to shoot an older gun or don't like steel it is an option. Actually when you look at the total cost of a cartridge, Hortonium would use standard fibre wads and less propellent than steel. Also if you choose to shoot 28g or any smaller calibres it would work better than steel. It works perfect for the sort of person who shoots on a syndicate for 8-10 days a year and wants to use his old grandfathers guns to do that. It just gives more choice and people pay their money and take the choice. Horses for courses and all that.

No we can't say yet, no. Patent is pending. We're looking to get it into the market at roughly the same time as patent granted. Then license in a sensible way to as many people as possible, that gives it longevity. We've shot 22 vs tenex and it works exactly the same at 50 metres.

We aren't marketing it at anyone in particular. We've invented something that is c10% cheaper than Bismuth that works like lead and is actually better than Bismuth. That you can shoot through full chokes and with pressures used on the very best lead cartridges. So it suits everyone and becomes a choice for people. You have to imagine a world where lead is banned, you cannot buy it. As we stand today your options are steel (can't use old guns despite what BASC say, they aren't gunsmiths, we are and we see the affect of steel on any gun), it wounds more birds than lead due to ballistic characteristics and it can and does rust in birds if it oxidises. Bismuth which as we've discussed has limitations but if game dealers don't want birds shot with it, it ceases to be an option for many who shoot on commercial shoots. Tungsten is hard and has similar issue to steel in regard wadding required and suitability for older guns. Bio Ammo being a Bismuth/Tin/Antinomy mix still can't be shot at high velocity as they don't bond at a molecular level and come apart. This leads to other problems. If you choose steel you can't really use an old gun and it will reduce the longevity of that gun. That reduces the value of them which we have seen in the market. You will see the market move to a more throw away type of gun ownership, buy something and use it for sub 10 years and throw away. You can't raise dents properly in chrome lined barrels and you can't hone them. So best guns would become a thing of the past, the number of gunsmiths would reduce massively as why would anyone pay to restock a gun with a short lifespan. The lead ban is a huge threat to the entire industry and that was our reason and drive to find a solution.

We know because we counted the pellets in the clay Vs the average pellet count in the cartridge. That is through a full choke. Bismuth is okish when shooting through open chokes and pushing 1250fps. That's ok for a 30 metre shot. It does still break up a bit and can again do so in the bird. Bismuth is a fragile metal, even if you add a bit of tin as they don't molecular bond. But is awful at 1450fps through a full choke which is what you'd need for birds at 50-70 metres. Then steel is also not great at that distance, simple physics of kinetic energy and defamation of shot or lack of it on impact.

You aren't understanding the point of the test. No one shoots birds at 10 metres. We were testing the amount of shot lost through the barrel in a tight choke. To do that we had to shoot at 10 metres to reduce the spread so we hit a significant sized piece of ballistic clay. The shot in that short distance had reduced by 30+% as it had broken up in the barrel. The fact some game dealers are starting to refuse birds shot with Bismuth means they won't get in the food chain. They are refusing them as it can and does shatter in the meat too. I'm that instance large shoots will insist on only steel being used. Alternative is they put them in a ditch. That's the start of the end of our sport. So for those reasons. Bismuth doesn't work very well.

He never did full barrel boring, that would have been Brian Bateman or us. Most likely Brian. Yes it does work better with open chokes as wads have to be cupped as it's harder than lead and far more brittle.

Yes by all means. It should actually read not work very well. 1. It shatters very easily. In a test We counted shot of ten cartridges to get an average pellet count. We then **** 10 through full choke into Ballistic clay at 10 metres. Then counted the pellets. 33.6% were lost as they'd shatter in the barrel or in the air in that distance. So a 30g load becomes 20g. That was using a very modern Bismuth cartridge from a highly regarded British manufacturer. 2. Game dealers are starting to refuse birds shot with Bismuth because it shatters. So if we can't get it into the food chain, it isn't great alternative to lead if no one will buy birds shot with it. That is increasing all the time. Each to own. In tests we've found it shatters. But it does depend on load, choke and FPS of the shot

They will be c10% cheaper than Bismuth. I know that is expensive and it won't be for everyone, but if you prefer to shoot an old English gun vs a lower priced Turkish etc gun then it will be far kinder on you and your gun. It also works exactly like lead so kills are cleaner.