steadyeddy

That's good info. The clay ground I go to is fibre only so I'll be needing Eley or Lyalvale for that. I want to be able to practice with a cartridge as close to my current preferred game cartridge as possible. So an 18 gram Eley 7 could work! The Lyalvale 3' is only 16 gram and not available in anything but 5,6! Currently use the Fiocchi 19g 6 for game and experience good results on driven birds. They also make it with 7.5 - moving to the smaller shot size will help the pattern? Could I not just tighten up the chokes with the 6 shot and get similar results? Just don't think I'd like to be using 7.5 come January! Thanks everyone for comments so far - Fiocchi really pulling ahead for Italian game cartridges!

Yildiz SPZ ME picks up and looks like a Silver Pigeon albeit a Turkish version!I put it next to my 20 SP and there's very little difference in their aesthetic appeal! Just wish the engraving was deeper - laser technology - part of the reason they keep cost down. I wish you many hours of 3' enjoyment this winter. Top guns! Ps I'm not comparing a SP to a Yildiz before anybody gets upset. Try the Fiocchi shells if you can - another real Italian triumph!

Best fibre wad cartridge for clays? Best (plastic or fibre) for game? Thanks in advance. SE

AYA Boxlock 26' Barrels. 20 gauge. Perfect for pig!

Always worth asking

Maybe look at my LAST comment before you have to get your calculator out again.

Sorry the only smooth BORE gun measured by calibre not gauge. It's been a historic issue!Nobody to this date has come up with a very precise answer, even the president of CIP (the European ruling committee on arms and ammunition).

Browning! I use an Ultra XS. 30' barrels with extended chokes ie about 31' total! Kills everything with 30gram 6 early season and 32gram 5 later.

Give yourself a challenge. I bought a Yildiz SPZ ME last Saturday. 410 O/U ejector with multichokes and auto safety for £650 - can't argue with that. Kills pheasants at 35 yards using Fiocchi 19 gram no 6 shot. You miss a few more than normal but guess what? When you hit it's a clean kill. And even better it's the MOST satisfying kill. They pattern really well with few gaps. Ie you need to be about 120% more accurate but was either killing or clean missing. I prefer it that way! And if you decide it's not for you when you go back to 30 gram no 6 you'll wonder how you ever missed! Go for it - it's Christmas! Ps 28 bores are great and all but it's hardly a big change from a 20! Get a 410 the only shotgun measured by calibre not bore. Winner winner pheasant dinner. SE

AYA 20 Bore No 3. Loads about. Really lightweight. Absolutely terrific guns! If he can break them with that he won't struggle to hit when he's strong enough for a 12 bore O/U sporter. And by then he might not want an O/U!