Glenshooter

Hi all I tagged this question onto an old thread last night which probably wasn't the best way to do it. At the Midland on Sat, I was chatting to a guy on the CPSA stand about my son's shooting as he is waving his 20g about a bit when shooting some clays. (The shooting school has suggested that we change to a 12g even thought his new 20 fits him well - a small 13 yr old.) This helpful (CPSA) chap suggested we consider a weight that slides over the barrels and is fixed by a lock screw of some type. It is adjustable to increase the weight/change balance. If the barrels were a bit heavier - this might help to "stabilise" the swing. Never seen or heard of this before. Anyone know who sells this thing? Thanks in advance.

At the Midland yesterday - great for chatting to many people about this issue - a guy on the CPSA stand suggested a weight that slides over and is fixed by screwing onto the barrels and is adjustable to increase the weight/change balance. If the barrels were a bit heavier - this might help to "stabilise" the swing. Never seen or heard of this before. Anyone know of who sells this thing?

For next time, ask any boyfriend to read, agree to and especially note Rule no 6. ******************************** 10 Rules for Dating My Daughter Rule One: If you pull into my driveway and toot you'd better be delivering something, because you're sure not picking anything up. Rule Two: You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them. Rule Three: I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise; You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist. Rule Four: I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilising a "barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you. Rule Five: It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is "early.†Rule Six: I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry. Rule Seven: As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process that can take longer than painting the Forth Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car? Rule Eight: The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka, zipped up to her throat. Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay , old folks homes are better. Rule Nine: Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a pot-bellied, balding, middle-aged, dim-witted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a gun, a shovel, and fifty acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me. Rule Ten: Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over terrorist stronghold in South Armagh. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine. I am a marksman, I shoot to kill.

Harry - if you were referring to my comments - absolutely nothing wrong. I was referring to 22LR, which is the topic of the thread. Edited my post to make it absolutely clear that it is 22LR.

Extrapolating from 100yds, a rifle shooting MOA accuracy may/could group 2" at 200 yds. However, my 22LR rimfire shows a 3.6" measured drop between 100 and 110 yds and a calculated 6" between 140 to 150 yds. The same formula (Excel; y = -0.003x2 + 0.27x - 6.1) suggests a 9" drop between 190 to 200 yds - and a total drop from a 50 yd zero to 200yds of 72". (Eley HP subs) I would strongly encourage anyone to not shoot at a live animal beyond 100yds with a (22LR) rimfire, IMHO. And only then if you have a range-finder and can shot MOA groups.

Consider Jericho Farm - Oxford Gun company. Friendly and family run.

Hi Mr Colt ref your suggestion about an auto. This was suggested before we even bought the 20g. Who knows, it may be the answer - except I am not very fond on autos. If we can try him with one, that would be great. He did try one a few years ago but it was massively too big for him - but that was then. . Thanks again for all your suggestions. It has been really helpful hearing all the varying views

Thanks yet again to you all for your replies and advice. All useful points. He was on a young shots day last week and tried a 12b and it appeared that his scores improved. However, he is a bit of a short *** - he had been very ill for most of last year and this has meant that his height it in the lower quartile for his age. I will see him using both guns for myself and take a decision based on that. My present thinking is to try other places for deals but probably the most prudent thing to do is to keep the little 20 for game shooting and get another 12b o/u for knocking about at the shooting ground. And besides, I can use it too and we don't have to be precious about the odd knock and scratch! I do look at bit of a plonker using my s/s on a sporting shoot! Thanks again for all your inputs.

I've just ordered a Brattonsound ST9 for £139 from Carp Trading. It has no shelf as I don't need it and the price includes delivery. http://www.carptrading.com/shooting/acatalog/

This is likely to be a dumb question, but how do you use a boresnake? Do you use a push rod to get rid of the initial **** first - rather then mank the boresnake? I push through solvent soaked tissue/cloth to get rid of the fouling before a wire brushing, cleaning with jag/cloth followed by a mop. Does a boresnake replace all this effort?? Thanks in advance.

Thanks again folks The £1,500 was a guess at the new "buying" price - not the r. retail price. My options are not limited to the school shop and thanks to you all for confirming that the £900 was somewhat on the low side. Gives me more "ammo" (excuse pun) to negotiate with the shop where I bought the gun. If I do go the additional gun route, the 12b will be for clays and the 20b will be for field shooting. He transfers between guns pretty well and I have been impressed at the standard of tution - but not so impressed that I am going to accept silly prices!! Thanks again for being so helpful to my first posting!

Following your comments and inspiration, here's how I am thinking - (assuming the trade in value offered so far) Options Part exchange 20g for new similar 12g. With a £900 trade in against new cost of say, £1,450 = I pay £550. Result one new 12G Buy second hand 12 G for £550. Additional cost = £550. Result one (as) new 20g (that I currently have) and a usable 12G. Seems like it's obvious what I should do!! Thanks again for the inspiration! However, if I can get more for as a trade in, this will all change!

Thanks guys I got a bit of a hard life story from the school/dealer , (I will have to accept a lower price because of having to reapply VAT etc etc), so good to have your opinion. While we could keep the 20 for field use - it's a shed load of money to have tied up in a rarely used gun. OTOH, if I was going to lose about £500 on a part exchange, the money would presumably buy me a reasonable second hand 12b and I would have 2 guns instead of one. Now, that makes sense!!

As has been said, it's not the recoil but the weight of the gun and the strength needed to hold it. My lad who is now 13 has been shooting for 2 years. While he could shoot my 12g - he was hitting very little and becoming demoralised. The gun was just too big and heavy for him to hold it up - and it is a light s/s. Got him a 20 and some good tuition and he's now a cracking shot. Whatever you do, get him good ear protection. Youngsters are more affected that adults with noise getting in past ear plug types so they need to be the headphone type. He's costing me a fortune!!!!

The adjustable that I saw was a Miroku, I think. Wasn't a pretty sight although I see the logic. Would go to about £1,500 - depending on what I can get for the Silver Pigeon 3. Does £900 seem right as a trade in for a mint gun that is sold for £1400 and has only had a few 100 cts through it?

Thanks folks so far. TBH, he has mainly used the school's guns for most of his shooting so the Beretta is not really his "main" gun. What I am trying to balance is keeping the 20g or taking the hit and going for a 12. Mine is a s/s so not really comparable. What we plan to do at the moment is to let him shoot 2 rounds of sporting one week with his 20 and the following weekend, borrow the club 12b and see how he fares. Not scientifc but better than nothing. Any other comments would be most welcome.

Firstly, hello from me. I've been shooting for many years, mainly service rifle, target rifle and rimfire. Had my shotgun since my dad bought it for me to motivate me to work hard for my o levels - over 30 yrs ago!!! My 13 yr old lad is now getting into clay shooting, has had about 6 lessons and is shortly starting competitions. I bought him a new Silver Pigeon 111 20g last year, hoping that he would get a good few years use out of it. (Yes, it has been expensive but he was very ill last year and I have happy to support him shooting since he can no longer play some other sports.) However, shooting school had just told me that he really needs a 12g now! 1) What sort of trade in could you expect from an absolutely mint 20G Silver Pigeon 111 m/c that cost around £1,400 and is less than a year old and has shot less than 500 cts? 2) Does it really matter of we go for a Browning 525 say, Silver Pigeon Beretta or Miroku? Shop was trying to tell me that the stocks are higher on some brands than others? 3) Should I really believe that a small sized 13 yr old has grown out of a 20G? Apparently it is to do with him "waving" the lighter gun too much and being steadier with the heavier 12g? I can't really afford to keep the 20g, as a second gun for game shooting. Thanks in advance, any advice grateful received.