JONO Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) Our two y/o springer "Ollie" who I've had for about 6 months and training for 5 did summat v weird at the weekend. He's not been out shooting with me yet - despite the temptation to get him delivering the odd pigeon. His old boss used to leave him in his pickup whilst he shot ruddy duck etc (works for the CSL) and we've taken him to within 3m of a clay stand at a game fayre without any nervousness on his part...and I tried him with a starter pistol without any reaction. Yet on a Sunday a few weeks back when I took out my gun to clean he went totally withdrawn and submissive - skulking as if I were going to beat him with it or, worse, use it on him! We immediately gave him some fuss and reassurance in the presence of the gun to try and show him nothing was wrong it but I'm very concerned there's something wrong....He did exactly the same yesterday after my first wildfowling trip I don't think its embarrassment at his boss owning a Baikal. I'd be grateful for any thoughts... Thanks in advance Jon Edited September 2, 2005 by JONO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Can anyone help shed some light on this? J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Your dog may not be gun shy to the sound of shot, but he definately is to the site of the long gun . What was the last loud gun noise over him, the clay course, the starters pistol, or other? Was the long gun in front of him behind him or over him? Think very carefully about this as the answer will depend on how you proceed. The same question for the starters pistol, was it behind your back , on the right hand side of your body (assuming the dog was on your left), in your left hand above the dog? Something has triggered an adverse reaction to the site of the gun. Do you know the person who owned him for the first 1 1/2 years? Can you contact this person explain the problem and ask ...in a very non accussalatory way...if he may know what has caused this problem? There are solutions to this, but I would like some more info before I write out a game plan. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 (edited) NTTF - thanks matey, In terms of history - I'll try to find out what, if anything, went on beforehand. I do know that Ollie used to accompany Chris in his landrover but stayed in the vehicle whilst he shot ruddy duck for the Govt. There is a chance the guy was a berk and fired the gun over the dogs head but he seemed too sensible/caring to do that...perhaps the dog saw the guns go off from the vehicle and the noise wasn't quite as quiet... In terms of my introduction to noise - the clay shoot was part of an introduction to shooting as part of a game fayre - two stands, just the odd shot. We slowly advanced from 200+ metres to under 5m with no adverse effects noted. I haven't shot over him nor fired the shotgun in his presence. My local gundog club introduced the starter pistol on tuesday evening - fired 5m+ away behind the guys back then out to the side and then in the open - again, no advserse effects noted. Ollie responded badly to some fireworks that went off outside last Saturday night (bluddy "Chavs") - the sound was harsh and reverberated round the back of the houses - boy did he skulk but I thought to reassure him rather than drag him away - he calmed down once he could see the rockets rising into the sky. The starting pistol came after that and, as mentioned, he was fine. I'm hoping that some gradual shots at distance, coupled with some dead game retrieves (his favorite at the moment) and gradually, very gradually brought closer together might resolve it...albeit slowly. Try and re-create the association with a positive? That or camofloage the shotgun in a pink stocking or summat... Edited September 2, 2005 by JONO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Jon, your Baikal is very nice....so we must think of something else ! I have a BSA Cadet air rifle which you are welcome to borrow anytime if you want to use that to get him more used to the long gun. It is not the quietest of air rifles. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 JONO Do not shoot around him until you can find out the history, or we work through a re conditioning program for the visual aspect of the shot gun. If you do you run the chance of chainning the sound of the gun, which at this point may be fine to the site of the gun which at this point is not fine, creating a gun shy dog. Try to get hold of his last owner and see what he has to say. Just ask if he ever had any problems with the dog sulking when he saw a gun or if the dog ever had any bad experiances around the gun, and explain what is going on. Let me know as soon as you talk to him, and I will put it together for you. These problems are sticky as you are dealing with reconditioning a behaviour problem, not just straight training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Air rifle... hmm thats a possibility - I have a Gamo (thanks again FM) which has a decent blat sound - but don't know whethe thats the route I ought to take at the mo. Good idea tho' - thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 NTTF - Thanks I'll try and contact his previous owner and another guy in his team who had Ollie's sister from the same litter. At the moment - it seems to be the initial showing of the gun (as I said it was involuntary as I needed to clean it). Saying that - he's happy to come up and get reassurances/hug etc whilst I'm crouching and still holding the shotgun. Will get back to you asap with as much as I can dig up... hope the above facts might help me get somewhere with this problem. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 The good news is she is not running away and hiding and still has enough confidence to come forward for petting ...we can build on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Jon, of course, I forgot the Gamo ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 NTTF, Am phoning the former owner tonight but I think there may be a fundamental problem with sticks... I know the dog stayed with various mates of the previous owner and just can't know for certain but my other half got her walking stick out this weekend (thanks FM again!) and the dog skulked again. I don't think it was somebody shooting over him too soon - I think he got thrashed with a stick whilst a pup and in his formative years. I need to build up that trust with anything "sticky" whilst treading that tightrope with regards to getting him used to shot....any suggestions with this extra info? It makes my blood boil - the little ****** is a real softie, tactile and very affectionate - to think some b*stard could have beat him to such an extent that anything long and vaguely bulky stares the bejesus out of him. Hope you can help. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Okay if it is just a long stick object fear than we should get through this well. Again do not shoot near him for a bit yet ,we do not need this chaining into the gun work. what I would like you to try is the following. If you have a break open gun it would work best if not any will do. When you are getting ready to feed him place your break open on the floor in the open postion, with his food set on the inside of the "v". The idea of this is that you want him to associate the gun with good things.Once he has eaten take the gun away. As he gains confidence eating between the arms of the gun start to straighten the gun out buy closing it alittle at a time. During the day take him out in the back yard and play around with him while holding a short stick give him lots of praise and treats as he comes up to you. each day cut a new stick roughly 4 inches bigger than the last, continue the praise and treats until he is walking and playing around ignoring the stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Thanks NTTF - will give it a real good go. Your help, as ever is much appreciated J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Day one progress. Got the gun out - dog skulked. Broke the gun and fed the dog as above - was fine. Then larked around in the garden with a short walking stick - initial trepidation overcome in a few minutes. Went out for water work practice this morning and took larger walking stick - dog didn't flinch. Will repeat for a few days but marvellous progress already! Thanks Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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