njc110381 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Hey guys. Now I have my new combi I'm hoping to learn to shoot to a reasonable standard with iron sights so I don't have to scope it. I want to shoot Deer with it without a scope, and before anyone says anything I know I'm going to have to work on this to be good enough. Does anyone shoot with iron sights? Either target or quarry? What range are you comfortable to get say a 4" group? I'm only going to be target shooting for now until I'm more experienced with it and I'll hold to a range that I'm confident at so there are no welfare issues. A lot of the Deer I see are very close, but I need to learn my limits. I'm just asking really because I'd like to know how good a shot you can be with irons? Then I can decide whether it's worth pushing to be good with them or whether I should just back down and scope the thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Iron sights can be as accurate as a scope. Many years ago when I was a teenager the woman in the cottage next door was a real battle axe. To get my revenge I used to shoot the heads of her prize tulips in her flower beds with my old Winchester .22 rf. Wonderful sport. It was years before I had a scope on a rifle and it did not stop me filling the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Thanks for that Charlie. I was hoping to get some replies from people who shot before scopes were considered essential! I've passed on from the line of thought that you need to be able to shoot sub MOA for Deer. The kill zone is pretty big and I'm thinking that as long as I can reliably hit the right zone that's good enough! I don't believe in long range shooting of Deer either. It's much more sporting to hit a 50 yarder than snipe at them (at least it is to me). I guess scopes just come in when the target is a longer way off or you want to hit a bunny in the eye at 100 yards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I used to often use iron sights on my straight-pull AR-15 and with factory ammo 2-3" groups at 100m (from a bi-pod) where achieveable. I'm sure people who practice this type of shooting often could get 1" with decent ammo. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I can guarantee you will have some fun with your new toy and will surprise yourself on how far you will be able to produce good groups when once you get the hang of it. Scopes are for Nancy boys !! who want to hit ticks on deer, real stalkers use open sights. I was told this by an old keeper when I got my first scope. Oh how the world has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Njc , For many years I shot deer with iron sights . In those days my eyesight was a lot better than it is today . Scopes were unheard of when I first started to stalk deer in the mid sixtys . Somebody with average eyesight and a little practice will be able to kill deer cleanly at 100 yards with iron sights ,my old mentor was proberbly the best stalker and rifle shot I ever knew and he never had a scope on any of his rifles and was very capable of shooting deer out to 300 yards with standard iron sporting sights . The most accurate open sights you will get are those on target rifles , element front sight and a rear ajustable iris sight . Unfortunately these are not much good on a sporter as they are designed to shoot at round black targets and have very little or no peripharal vision . A decent set of iron sights on a rifle and reasonable eyesight will get you on the deer . Open sights are fabulous in woodland stalking and in my opinion better than a scope . Its all about practice . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I can guarantee you will have some fun with your new toy and will surprise yourself on how far you will be able to produce good groups when once you get the hang of it. Scopes are for Nancy boys !! who want to hit ticks on deer, real stalkers use open sights. I was told this by an old keeper when I got my first scope. Oh how the world has changed. My old mentor said to me when he first saw a scope on a rifle , they are for people who carnt shoot and anyhow they will never catch on . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 An other thing about using iron sights , the rifle becomes a lot faster to use and will point more like a shotgun . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Thanks chaps. It's really nice to get some positive replies from people who have been in the sport for a long time. I was half expecting to be told that I was mad and that humane shots are impossible without a scope! The adjustment on the sights is pretty rough. I have a fixed blade front sight that is mounted in a dovetail type arrangement so it can be changed for higher/lower blades to get the elevation right. The rear sight is a sliding notch fixed with a screw for the windage. I'm sure with some time spent on it I can get it to shoot to the sights. Whether that means a new front blade or careful reloading with various charges and bullet weights I don't know? The sights are however pretty small and the blade fits very well in the rear notch so they could be considered quite good I think. I just need to learn how to use them properly. When I was a boy I had open sights on my BSA Meteor. I could take the head off of a Starling at 20 yards freehand pretty much every time but back then I was probably getting through 500 pellets per week! My air rifle was my life then, whenever I wasn't busy with school work that's what I was doing! I just don't have that much time now. Having said that the Meteor wasn't as accurate as a modern rifle so I should be able to improve on that. As for the 300 yard open sight shots on Deer I don't think I'll ever be that good. That shows a deep and true relationship between man and rifle which I'm sure took a lifetime of dedication to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 An other thing about using iron sights , the rifle becomes a lot faster to use and will point more like a shotgun .Harnser . I hope so. The fact that it is also a shotgun is the main reason I don't want to scope it. A scope would just ruin the lines of the gun and make shooting on the wing much more challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 You need to get the gun sighted in at 100 yards off the bags or whatever . Once you have a 100 yard zero move back to 150 yards and see were it is printing on the paper . You will be suprised at how little hold over you will need . Also move closer at 50 yards and try again . I will bet you that once you have zeroed it at 100 yards you will be able to hit the killing zone on a deer with out holding over at 100 yards or under at 50 yards . Practice will bring confidence . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) It's not really the trajectory I'm worried about, it's the grouping. The rifle is a 7x57R, I've not looked up the trajectory of it but I'd hope that under 150 yards will just be a point and shoot affair? That's assuming I can shoot well enough to take it out that far! EDIT.. I just looked it up and worked out it's shooting up to .5" high until 100 yards (zero) then 2" low at 150. At 150 yards it's carrying 1700ft-lbs which is quite well down on the 7x57 Mauser due to the low pressure of the rimmed cartridge but still the same as the 80grn Norma .243 round is offering at the muzzle so it's no lightweight! Edited November 26, 2009 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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