roadkill Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 My dog has started to develop a problem when sending it back to get a dummy I first started to drop the dummy and walk about 20 strides and then sit the dog and i would carry on another 20 strides and then send the dog back for the dummy , I have now moved up and can walk about 100 strides and sit the dog and then i walk another 30 strides ahead and all has been fine untill today and it went wrong big style. She went to fetch the dummy and started to come back , but on her return she dropped the dummy and carried on running back to me so i dropped her with the whistle and gave the go back comand again and this time she got the dummy and bought it back again . I tried it again and she did the same again she dropped the dummy and carried on running to me so i shouted a bit to much and she just sat there looking at me after this she wouldnt even try and get the dummy so i left it at that and did a bit of heal work and sent her on a blind retrieve which she did fine on . How do i fix the go back problem please help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hi roadkill It sounds as if you increased the distance to quick !!!! Go back to the distance she was doing it right, keep to this distance for a couple of days to get her confidence back, with plenty of praise, then gradually increase the distance. If to start with she won't go back for the retrieve stop the exercise for a week & then re-introduce it. good luck with her training Lee swingtip gundogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWD Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) as said go back to what she did well then increase the distance as before , maybe this time she will get it better..I have a lab that does this every so offten..not a problem as she wont do it with birds ..also check the dummy over incase it has some bad odor or the likes..did this with a dog once and it was dropping it like a hot brick...then realised the dummy had dog s*it on it . Try a change of dummy to may just increase the excitment factor as bordom may play a part . and last check the dogs mouth just incase there is something wrong inside. I do something similar to your own but also drop the dummy in a bush in sight or similar then walk her to heel away from it ...find it plays on her mind as she want to go find it so when we get 100 or 200 yards away I sit her up then send her back from close up ..she goes like a rocket to very keen . bit of variety might be all thats needed Edited December 1, 2009 by PWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 What has increased distance got to do with dropping a dummy part way back on the return? Nothing whatsover. If the dog drops the dummy and returns without it, heel the dog back out to the dummy, have her pick it and then sit whilst you go back to the point of recall, and blow the come-in whistle. Think I also saw something in a neighbouring post about how sitting at an early age can take drive out of a dog--come again? It's all obedience and never can be taught too early. Only takes something out if you, the handler, put something in, the boot for example, or a verbal lashing. Teach, don't torment. Because the dog spat the dummy on its return does not warrant, as the original poster knew immediately, a skewering for the dog. That's what's called a teachable moment. Welcome it and continue training. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted December 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 not as bad as i first thought thank god , Changed the dummy for a nice small water one and went out today and first sent her on a blind retrieve she set off but stopped and looked back at me so i repeated the command with good girl and off she went and bought it straight back , did this again and still a bit sticky but this is my fault not the dog but after a treat she was good , did some heel work and then tried the go back command this time only doing 30 strides , she went straight back and bought the dummy to me without dropping it so i gave her lots of praise and then called it a day and sent her on the go play command to have some fun .... How many let the dog have a play after the training session ? and is it ok to let the dog have a mad 10 mins palying or will this bring on other problems later in life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Called it a day and sent her on the go play command to have some fun .... How many let the dog have a play after the training session ? and is it ok to let the dog have a mad 10 mins palying or will this bring on other problems later in life? Absolutely approve, good tonic at the end of training; puts "being a dog" back into the dog. A picker-upper in the parlance. not as bad as i first thought thank god , Changed the dummy for a nice small water one and went out today and first sent her on a blind retrieve she set off but stopped and looked back at me Dogs are very situational, yours obviously remembered the scolding from dropping the dummy earlier and returning without it, and this time out, she popped ("stopped and looked back at me") to make sure she wasn't doing wrong by your instructions. Popping is a confidence issue often down to confusion and not wanting to do wrong. Popping also correlates to why a dog's underconfident, and that's on you, or me, the handler. It ain't obedience that takes the drive out of 'em, it's untimely corrections and/or handling inconsistency on your part. Again, it's teach, don't torment. And if you're concerned about untrod ground at "lengthening" the dog on blind retrieves, do this: Put the dummy out at the distance the dog's comfortable at going--say 75 yards. As soon as you send the dog with "Back!" and as the dog's running away from you, you run away from it--say 50 yards in the opposite direction. Get there fast so that when the dog gets to and picks the dummy, it begins a return of 125 yards not 75. The important thing is the return, to you, with the dummy. Subconsciously it may or may not be imparted to the dog that it's traveled an extra 50 yards. But they are creatures of habit and that extra 50 yards (or 100 or 200) gives it familiarity with running out that far even when it really hasn't. Good luck, MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Think I also saw something in a neighbouring post about how sitting at an early age can take drive out of a dog--come again? It's all obedience and never can be taught too early. Only takes something out if you, the handler, put something in, the boot for example, or a verbal lashing. Teach, don't torment. Because the dog spat the dummy on its return does not warrant, as the original poster knew immediately, a skewering for the dog. That's what's called a teachable moment. Welcome it and continue training. MG Are you accusing me of putting the boot into my dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus69 Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) Think I also saw something in a neighbouring post about how sitting at an early age can take drive out of a dog--come again? It's all obedience and never can be taught too early. Only takes something out if you, the handler, put something in, the boot for example, or a verbal lashing. Teach, don't torment. Because the dog spat the dummy on its return does not warrant, as the original poster knew immediately, a skewering for the dog. That's what's called a teachable moment. Welcome it and continue training. MG Are you accusing me of putting the boot into my dogs? I didn't read it like that,the way I read it was the original poster on THIS thread said that he chastised the dog for spitting the dummy on retrieve. Now when i started out with my Lab and she did a similar thing I stopped and thought right what the heck do I do now do I tell her off or take her back out to it and praise her when she gets it right?.Thankfully for me and her I chose the latter but could've easily shouted at her for spitting the dummy. I think the guy was just pointing out in general that to seriously chastise,lash out,or stick the boot in is the wrong thing to do and wasn't aimed at anybody in particular,and the only reference made to another post on another thread that I can see is about sitting at an early age. And I think all the advice on this thread has been pretty darn good!!. Mike... Edited December 1, 2009 by Magus69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I didn't read it like that,the way I read it was the original poster on THIS thread said that he chastised the dog for spitting the dummy on retrieve.Now when i started out with my Lab and she did a similar thing I stopped and thought right what the heck do I do now do I tell her off or take her back out to it and praise her when she gets it right?.Thankfully for me and her I chose the latter but could've easily shouted at her for spitting the dummy. I think the guy was just pointing out in general that to seriously chastise,lash out,or stick the boot in is the wrong thing to do and wasn't aimed at anybody in particular,and the only reference made to another post on another thread that I can see is about sitting at an early age. And I think all the advice on this thread has been pretty darn good!!. Mike... sorry Mike jumped in with both feet. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus69 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 No Problem mate I've been apt to do it myself. Cheers Mike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Personally I think this dog is a prime canidate for the baseball drill. In this way you would be building the confidance in its ability to go left, right, and back, and you can quietly lengthen her out. This will also help with her ability to handle on blind retrieves. Remember a new game to a dog is like a new shotgun to you......a whole new bundle of fun and excitement. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 NTTF - whats the baseball drill pleasae mate ? my bitch is also having probs with go back ( left and right seem ok ) , shes ok on seen retrieves but getting her confidence up for blinds is taking a while especially on on the back command . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) NTTF - whats the baseball drill pleasae mate ? my bitch is also having probs with go back ( left and right seem ok ) , shes ok on seen retrieves but getting her confidence up for blinds is taking a while especially on on the back command . Darren, I believe Dan's posted somewhere up top the "walking baseball" drill. But let's break down your problem: 1) Why do you think the dog's got no confidence for running blinds? And 2) Why is she "especially" underconfident on "Back!"? Elsewhere, a couple of elsewheres perhaps, you've commented about too much retrieving or not enough. Let's apply this to blinds. 1) The dog acquires confidence for running a blind retrieve by running blind retrieves and by being confident that there is something out there for her to retrieve once she gets to the destination. In other words, the dog must "know" there is a retrieve awaiting. How to instill that confidence? Simple (and so simple it could start at 12-14 weeks old for pup): You put a dummy out whilst the pup (dog) watches you. To simplify further, you have the dog on a lead at your feet as you're putting out the dummy, then walk away to a distance where the dummy is still visible to the dog or--and this is important--a distance that's not so distant that the dog's forgot having seen it put on the ground. 2) As soon as the dog's lined up at your side and looking out, i.e., ready to be sent, you send--on Back! Always on Back! Why would you send for a blind using different commands, when Back! is a cue that the dog's meant to be running a blind--as well as a command? See, the difference is, you don't command a dog to retrieve, you release it for a retrieve that it's marked. You command it on a blind retrieve that it has not marked. And actually, if you want to use a true cue, you preface Back! with "Dead bird...dead bird" spoken softly to get the dog focussed, then give the more vociferous "Back!" which drives the dog away from you. "Left" and "right" are "Over!" casts and should be addressed when you've advanced further with blinds. If you start over casts without the dog's having foundation for handling--that is, driving back--you will get a dog that prefers to take over casts as a matter of course because they're easier, especially for an unconfident dog, to accept. And if they know you will accept it, just gets that much worse. The main thing with blinds for any gundog is consistency, and repetition. Train with the former, and train lots of the latter--especially for blinds. That's why the Yanks have oodles of drills, and each of them is sequential, offering consistency and repetition. You're only fair to the dog by using both and balancing them. Good luck, MG Edited December 9, 2009 by cracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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