tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 I have had my SGC for a year now and I have a Macnab highlander which I'm really pleased with. Anyway I have a mate who has started coming out with me but he has no licence so I want to get a second gun so we can both shoot. I'm looking for something not too expensive and if it gets the odd scratch I don't want to cry over it. I have been reading on here about some of the cheap S/A's which are around and I like the sound of them but I just read that you can't shoot game with a gun that holds more than 2 shots It is a fairly mixed shoot with pigeons, rabbits in the main and the odd pheasant in season so I don't want to be unable to shoot game because one of us has 3 shots, I know the person with the o/u will be able to but **** law the pheasants will always fly in front of the bloke with the s/a won't they. :yp: I have also read people saying it takes time to swap from one style of gun to the next, is this a big problem and if so am I best just getting a cheap o/u for continuity? Thanks in advance Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 :yp: Tenbears before you buy another gun for your mate without the licence to borrow, you do of course own the land that you let him shoot over??? As for not being able to shoot game with a 3 shot semi, it is the first I have heard of it. It is certainly frowned on if you turned up at an organised shoot with a semi but it would be the head of the shoot who might ban you but not the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Further to the pm I sent ernyha: "It is illegal to shoot wildfowl or game with a gun having a magazine capacity of more than two cartridges." The above is taken from BSAC's code of conduct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 but the 3 shot semi is actually a 2shot, and therefore legal, as its 2 in the magazine 1 up the spout its only fac shotguns i believe which hold more than 2 in the magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Ahhh now everything is clear. Thanks for that and sorry to confuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Why not pick up a Bakial or a laurona O/U for your mate to use You can pick up something useable for around £100 S/H if you buy a semi 1/ there a pain to walk with on rough shoots 2/ theres more to go wrong 3/ like people say they are frowned upon on game shoots If you dont own the land your mate is shooting over you MUST have concent in writing from the land owner stating that he is ok about Non licence holders shooting on his/her land And you Must be supervising the non licence holder BY LAW! Hope this helps WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Thanks for the advice guys I've just searched the forum for more info on the non-licensed mate thing and it appears to be a grey area more than illegal but like everyone else I don't want to be the first to end up in court to test a theory. We both have permission and the land is owned by our boss but he does not shoot with us (I have been alone lots of times my mate has been with me twice). I suppose one way is to ask my firearms dept how they interpret the law, but will that just mean they say no on principal because it is less hassel for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 sorry to be of bad news but he can not shoot unless the land owner is with him and useing the land owners gun :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Thanks for the advice guys I've just searched the forum for more info on the non-licensed mate thing and it appears to be a grey area more than illegal but like everyone else I don't want to be the first to end up in court to test a theory. We both have permission and the land is owned by our boss but he does not shoot with us (I have been alone lots of times my mate has been with me twice). I suppose one way is to ask my firearms dept how they interpret the law, but will that just mean they say no on principal because it is less hassel for them? Like i said i contacted my Firearms unit here in Northampton about the matter Now the Law states (Here anyway) A farmer/landowner can give his shotgun to an employee (need not be a SGC holder) for use on his land UNSUPERVISED Also a SGC holder can take a Non SGC holder out on private land (Only with the owners concent) as long as the non holder is supervised by the SGC holder at all times in some circumstances only on excempt land (ie declared excempt by the Chief Constable) a non sgc holder can shoot on his own unsupervised Most Clay shooting grounds are Excempt Still some Firearms units have a different idea of the law Its Always best to ring your own unit for advice just to confirm They dont bite , They are your BEST mates Trust Me!!! WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 (edited) this is where the grey area is, which has been discused before on here. basically when you get permission from the land owner to shoot, you become in a form the land owner (sounds funny i know, but bare with me) my dad phoned up the basc before i started going foxing regually with him, becuase i did at that time not hold an fac, and he was not the land owner, so it seemed unless we got an estate rifle (not going to happen) i couldnt shoot. apparently this is wrong as my dad (having been given permission to shoot hte land) has effectively become the land owner, in the asspect that he can have people whom dont have a ticket shooting with him, as long as they are on the land talked about and under his supervision. this is no nonsense, its what hte basc legal team told my dad. i think the basc might be a more helpful bunch that you local plod station, in my experiance they will read into the laws what they like, if they believe it will make them look clever and might stop you from doing something you want to do. basc legal advice line is a top quality service, and the main reason i am a member, i thoroughly recomend you use it. :yp: Edited September 6, 2005 by dunganick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Spot on Nick , When i'm on the BASC stand taking on new members theres usually a Firearms Enquiry team on the stand with us TOP BLOKES the lot of them not met a bad one yet Mind you i've not met any from Bedford yet WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Ok so I've only been a member a day and already opened a can of worms but I want to introduce my mate to the sport and I don't want to get into trouble doing it. I will phone the FLEO and ask their opinion and also mention that I will check with the bsac so they know not to just give me a load of bull. At the end of the day it will be my local plod who feel my collar, if it comes to that, not the bsac legal team so I think it's only wise to check with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 just be aware that plod does like to re word the odd law, where as the basc give it to you straight. as far as im concerned for the reasons i mentioned above, you may (dependant on your age which im not sure about, concerning when you can supervise a non cert holder) you may legally accompany him shooting with your guns on land you have permission on from the holder of the sporting rights or land owner. good luck introducing him into the sport, ive just gained a full time shooting buddy, as he has just got his SGC and 1st shotgun, its nice to know youve done your little bit to keep the sport alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Ok so I've only been a member a day and already opened a can of worms but I want to introduce my mate to the sport and I don't want to get into trouble doing it. I will phone the FLEO and ask their opinion and also mention that I will check with the bsac so they know not to just give me a load of bull. At the end of the day it will be my local plod who feel my collar, if it comes to that, not the bsac legal team so I think it's only wise to check with them. No worms ere dude !! Just Good commonsense to ask as many people as possible where the law is concerned including the Law itself Ring your Enquiry Officer He'll be only too pleased to help you Do you shoot at Risley at all ? Are you and your mate BASC members? 1001 Questions Sorry! WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Wabbitbosher I am a member at risley and it's only 20 mins from me. I'm a bsac member but my mate is not. I know he should be but imagine offering someone a game of football in the park and saying that they have to spend £100 on kit and insurance before they are allowed to kick the ball. It's catch 22. I'm sorry if people don't agree with me there. dunganick I'm looking at 30 next year so age is not a problem, well aparently anyway. :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 :yp: okay, just for young uns like me, i dont know if i have to be 21 or what, but i generally dont shoot with non cert holders, so i will pass that hurdle when it comes to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Wabbitbosher I am a member at risley and it's only 20 mins from me. I'm a bsac member but my mate is not. I know he should be but imagine offering someone a game of football in the park and saying that they have to spend £100 on kit and insurance before they are allowed to kick the ball. It's catch 22. I'm sorry if people don't agree with me there. dunganick I'm looking at 30 next year so age is not a problem, well aparently anyway. :yp: Nope , i agree with that it was a while before i became a BASC member Now i work for them part time Great bunch of chaps n lasses Maybee we could meet up at risley for a Quick 25 sometime ? I go pigeon shooting just round the corner from there (well 15 or 20 miles from there ) WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 That sounds like a plan WB. I go to risley on Wednesday nights mainly but weekends when I can get time off for good behavior from the missus. We'll have to try and arrange something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 That sounds like a plan WB. I go to risley on Wednesday nights mainly but weekends when I can get time off for good behavior from the missus. We'll have to try and arrange something. Spot on , sounds like a major plan to me WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Just to finish this off, I spoke to bedford firearms dept and was called back by my FLEO. He stated, as we know that: a non certificate holder must be loaned a gun and supervised by the land occupier. He said however that they use the term occupier as defined in the wildlife and countryside act 1981 section 27 where occupier is anyone with permission to shoot on that land. They see no reason for the land Owner to be present. I realise that counties differ greatly in their interpretation of the law but this is the case in Bedfordshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Just to finish this off, I spoke to bedford firearms dept and was called back by my FLEO. He stated, as we know that: a non certificate holder must be loaned a gun and supervised by the land occupier. He said however that they use the term occupier as defined in the wildlife and countryside act 1981 section 27 where occupier is anyone with permission to shoot on that land. They see no reason for the land Owner to be present. I realise that counties differ greatly in their interpretation of the law but this is the case in Bedfordshire. I'd hate to say i told em so BUT its always best to check with the powers that be "INIT" WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted September 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 certainly is WB. :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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