Brocock Enigma

[mimic]

Can anyone tell me the maximum muzzel energy that the brocock enigma (series 2) can produce?, And Also what is or are the most accurate pellets for it?

 

Edited September 29, 2005 by mimic

[mimic]

I take that as a no then, is there anything the same that is worthy of FAC cost?

[SNAKEBITE]

If I were you I would find out who imports them and give them a ring. They might be able to tell you who they reccomend for "tarting up".

 

Failing that ring the shop where you plan to buy one and explain the situation to them. Again they might be able to point you in the rught direction.

 

....... or google the gun?

[1 of 5]

I'd doubt it'll go very high on the power front as the air reservoir is fairly small. If you must have a military style pcp at FAC powers then the Stealth can be upped to in excess of 100 ft/lb, though the build quality is Mickey Mouse on them.

[mimic]

I'd doubt it'll go very high on the power front as the air reservoir is fairly small. If you must have a military style pcp at FAC powers then the Stealth can be upped to in excess of 100 ft/lb, though the build quality is Mickey Mouse on them.

Well the barrel is 1.5" longer than a logun S16, and the air tank may look small in the pic but it is fullsized the same as the new logun dominators & gladiators...

 

The new loguns do have a longer barrel now after the release of the brocock they have clearly copied the designs and added a little bit to the barrel... But it also has 400 more on the price tag.. ok it has an on board airgauge wich the engima doesnt but hey i can live with that

 

I know the enigma is well able to produce respectable power just not exactly how much,,,,,,

 

 

 

 

Its farley clear who logun got their new design idea from

Edited October 4, 2005 by mimic

[roblade]

who told you they are logun designs???

 

think you might find they are designed by a swedish guy (freddrick axor?), he did the webley axor and the logun axor (think he might have fallen out with webley) but as far as im aware the only gun logun produce them selves is the MK1 and MK2 profesional, not too sure about the S16 though.

 

as for what 1 of 5 said about the gunpower stealth, yes they are VERY mickey mouse at 12F/lbs but take them to FAC level and they are a totaly different rifle for some reason. Just dont touch them with a barge pole if you only want 12F/lbs

 

ROB

 

PS loguns came out way before the brocock!

Edited October 4, 2005 by roblade

[mimic]

who told you they are logun designs???

 

think you might find they are designed by a swedish guy (freddrick axor?), he did the webley axor and the logun axor (think he might have fallen out with webley) but as far as im aware the only gun logun produce them selves is the MK1 and MK2 profesional, not too sure about the S16 though.

 

as for what 1 of 5 said about the gunpower stealth, yes they are VERY mickey mouse at 12F/lbs but take them to FAC level and they are a totaly different rifle for some reason. Just dont touch them with a barge pole if you only want 12F/lbs

 

ROB

 

PS loguns came out way before the brocock!

the logun s16 came out before the enigma but the new Take down style of the gladiator and dominator as far as i am aware came out well after the release of the enigma.

[mimic]

PS loguns came out way before the brocock!

The logun S16 has been out for a long time yes, I was refering to the new military style Dominator & Gladiator wich as far as im aware came out shortly after the release of the enigma

[roblade]

ok so i might be worng, when do you belive the enigma was released?

 

if i rember right the galdiator and dominator wwere released apporx 18-24 months thats only these two, there were similar desings specificaly the pistol shuttle loading system one, there have been so many different versions of these rifles i have forgoten thier names, think webley might have even had one of the first from Mr. axor before logun had the resale rights (webley sceptre? or was that logun as well)

 

But the basic desing has been around for a little over 2 years i think thuogh it could be a bit closer to 3.

 

brocock only started coming up with other ideas AFTER the TACS/BACS/SCGA ban came into effect and im pretty sure the enigma only came out less than 12 months ago (nov last year) at least 6 months AFTER the loguns

 

ROB

[roblade]

release dates all pretty good estimates(month and year only):

 

ENIGMA: 11/04

DOMINATOR/GLADIATOR 05/04 (BASED AROUND THE RIFLES BELOW)

RWS SCIMITAR: 03/03

RWS CUTLAS: 07/03

fX GLADIATOR 05/04

 

and for good measure

GUNPOWER STEALTH 1998

 

so as you can see a minimum of 6 months between the release of the enigma, the dates i used in previouse post were from memory hence a little on the vauge side.

 

just bugs me when i cant rember something that i should know PML

 

ROB

 

PS there is nothing take down style about the loguns! they all have fixed stocks or fixed bottles.

 

the onyl rifles that are take downs are as follows:

 

enigma (top of the list as your interestead in it)

 

AA TDR (the best one out there!!!!)

 

Gunpower Stealth (dont even go there!)

 

Logun S16 (turns into a bloody big thing when assembled )

 

Alros trailsman (second only to the TDR, 8 shot mag version and 400cc bottle version avalibale as well)

 

Scan ultra (heard good things and bad things about these but with a 32 shot mag 16 on one side 16 on the flip side)

Edited October 5, 2005 by roblade

[rarms]

>brocock only started coming up with other ideas AFTER the TACS/BACS/SCGA

>ban came into effect and im pretty sure the enigma only came out less than 12

>months ago (nov last year) at least 6 months AFTER the loguns

 

 

 

I handled a pre-production enigma at a friends house about 18 months to 2 years ago

[roblade]

I handled a pre-production enigma at a friends house about 18 months to 2 years ago

most of the time the compnays will have at least one proto type or pre-production model, and often more than just the one idea. If they dont the bloody well should have!

 

but i was refering to released models, or at least when they started to apear in the shops.

 

ROB

[mimic]

the loguns have longer barrels and come in 2.5 cal :< This sucks i went for the enigma because it had 1.5" more barrel than the logun s16 But now i discover these new loguns :thumbs: uh bigger barrel muh Damn :<

[roblade]

so whats the barrel length got to do with anything??

 

and a .25 logun 8 shot mag? thats news to me

 

think you need to have a long hard think about what you want the rifle to do before you think about what rifle you want. LOL

 

ROB :thumbs:

Edited October 5, 2005 by roblade

[Stealth Stalker]

Roblade

 

Something tells me you don,t like the Stealth? :thumbs:

 

I,ve got one and have been very pleased with it, for my requirements, rabbits, squirrels, maggies etc.

Although granted I have,nt tried many other air rifles.

 

I, m interested in your comments about taking it to FAC levels.

How would you go about doing it?

As I have applied for my FAC which i hope to be getting soon.

 

Cheers S.S

[rarms]

I was never taken by the stealth either, it seems like a good idea in principle, but there are so many varying factors: hammer friction, o-ring life, and combined with the fact it will never be multi shot and the UK customer care side of things is a joke I decided they were a bit poo.

 

Put a brass hammer in mine and a 19" barrel. There is plenty of info online about tuning them, but if you wanted an FAC gun find one which is already FAC as it reduces the price you can sell the gun on for as it can never be off ticket once it has been raised above 12ft/lbs

[1 of 5]

as it can never be off ticket once it has been raised above 12ft/lbs

Not so. Wakefield plod are quite happy to take them off and back to 12 ft/lb. Some forces do and some don't.

[rarms]

>Not so. Wakefield plod are quite happy to take them off and back to 12 ft/lb. Some forces do and some don't.

 

This may be the case but under the law they can't do this. Anyone who buys your gun could be had for having a FAC gun with no ticket

[1 of 5]

Can you provide a link to that law?

I've never seen such a law, and believe it to be just an accepted point rather than an actual fact of law. There is no national firearms register so if it's removed from the local one by the local plod there will be no record of it ever having been FAC. Therefore how could anyone be prosecuted for purchasing said gun (with the full consent of the local plod) even if such a law does exist? Wakefield require the gun to be de-rated by an RFD to comply with sub 12 ft/lb law. I know of two people who've had their airguns taken off ticket to increase resale value.

[mimic]

Can you provide a link to that law?

I've never seen such a law, and believe it to be just an accepted point rather than an actual fact of law. There is no national firearms register so if it's removed from the local one by the local plod there will be no record of it ever having been FAC. Therefore how could anyone be prosecuted for purchasing said gun (with the full consent of the local plod) even if such a law does exist? Wakefield require the gun to be de-rated by an RFD to comply with sub 12 ft/lb law. I know of two people who've had their airguns taken off ticket to increase resale value.

I have to agree surely if you can re certify the gun prefesionaly to 11.9 ftlbs there is no logical reason for it to be an offence for someone to buy, But You must now use a certified firearms dealer to resell your gun only they can buy an resell air guns now

 

Atleast this is how i think the new law works?

Edited October 8, 2005 by mimic

[rarms]

>Can you provide a link to that law?

 

 

See below:

 

------------------------------------------------

 

Firearms Amendment Act 1988:

 

 

Quote:

Conversion not to affect classification

 

7.—(1) Any weapon which—

 

( a ) has at any time (whether before or after the passing of this Act) been a weapon of a kind described in section 5(1) of the principal Act as amended by or under section 1 above; and

 

( B ) is not a self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which has at any such time been such a weapon by reason only of having had a barrel less than 24 inches in length,

shall be treated as a prohibited weapon notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a weapon of a different kind.

 

(2) Any weapon which—

 

( a ) has at any time since the coming into force of section 2 above been a weapon to which section 1 of the principal Act applies; or

 

( B ) would at any previous time have been such a weapon if those sections had then been in force,

shall, if it has, or at any time has had, a rifled barrel less than 24 inches in length, be treated as a weapon to which section 1 of the principal Act applies notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a shot gun or an air weapon.

 

( 3 ) For the purposes of subsection (2) above there shall be disregarded the shortening of a barrel by a registered firearms dealer for the sole purpose of replacing part of it so as to produce a barrel not less than 24 inches in length.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

2 ( B ) is the important part, most air rifles have rifled barrels of less than 24" and are hence held by that law as always being firearms. All it needs now is for someone to get caught and try and test it in court.

 

Since if they lose the court case they are looking at a mandatory 5 stretch I don't think ill be volunteering

 

 

Edited as ( B ) without the spaces is apprently a smiley code

Edited October 8, 2005 by rarms

[1 of 5]

The word notwithstanding effectively grants an exemption to shotguns and airguns there as far as I read it, though the legal phrasing is less than clear English.

[rarms]

Dictionary .com reckons that notwithstanding means all-the-same

 

therfore:

 

principal Act applies all the same (to?) anything done for the purpose of converting it into a shot gun or an air weapon.

 

From that I would read it also applies to air weapons.

 

I am neither a lawyer or someone willing to try it

 

With the upcoming national firearms register I would also advise others not to

 

Especially when on topic here you can buy already FAC'd rifles much cheaper than their off ticket models, so I would flog the 12 ft/lbs model and use the cash to buy a better model'd FAC

[roblade]

I have heard of yorkshire police allowed rifles to be unFACd, but i wouldnt like to be the one stopped with one of these rifles PML

 

in most cases once and FAC always an FAC, but as with every rule there are always the exceptions

 

 

ROB

[24joy]

oh Mr Roblade Not wishing to high jack this post, but in defence of the stealth, I know some who have used them in the club I use in a comp and do better with them than there springer . Would use mine as well now its running right but only one that the N.V. fits on without hitting the mag :*)