.243 Help

[Vipa]

Ok... about to put my FAC app in... My mentor (who is VERY experienced and I take his advice as gospel but he is a very busy man and I don't want to pester him anymore on this!) tells me that all .243 ammo is expanding ammo and that in fact they don't make non expanding (i.e.FMJ) ammo in this calibre or if they do it's like rocking horse droppings to get hold of bacause a. it's not a NATO round and b. there is no demand for it as .243 bench rest shooting does not tend to happen in the USA.

 

I am requesting .243 win as my only CF calibre to be used for paid for stalks (about to go on my DSC1 course) and fox (when I find some permissions) but also target shooting with my club. The rules state that I cannot use expanding ammo for target shooting or target comps... I'm really getting confused here please help.... what the chuff am I asking for on my application.

 

Oh, also, how do I request moderators on my application as I want one for each, 22LR, .17HMR & .243Win? The BASC website doesn't offer any help on that one.

 

Thanks

Paul

[SSS]

>.243 FMJ<

 

>more .243 FMJ<

 

As for the moderators, apply for them for each rifle as you would applying for the calibre itself and the reason for having one is ear protection.

 

If you are wanting one caliber for 2 different bullet types, you will have to re-zero (or at least check the zero) because the POI will be different

[Vipa]

>.243 FMJ<

 

>more .243 FMJ<

 

As for the moderators, apply for them for each rifle as you would applying for the calibre itself and the reason for having one is ear protection.

 

If you are wanting one caliber for 2 different bullet types, you will have to re-zero (or at least check the zero) because the POI will be different

 

OK!!! so how am I requesting this on my app... do I need to specify just .243 expanding or do I need to specify .243 Exp and non exp as 2 different items. Also as I would prefer just to use one type of round so as to maintain zero and ensure clean kills, will plod let me use my expanding ammo for target or only for (unlimited) zeroing! ?? the rest was easy, this bit is doing my head in... also, where do I stand on .17HMR... are ballistic tips the norm or will I again have to specify, bearing in mind I have no permissions for this yet so will initially be for target only.

 

Ta again!

[Billy.]

OK!!! so how am I requesting this on my app... do I need to specify just .243 expanding or do I need to specify .243 Exp and non exp as 2 different items. Also as I would prefer just to use one type of round so as to maintain zero and ensure clean kills, will plod let me use my expanding ammo for target or only for (unlimited) zeroing! ?? the rest was easy, this bit is doing my head in... also, where do I stand on .17HMR... are ballistic tips the norm or will I again have to specify, bearing in mind I have no permissions for this yet so will initially be for target only.

 

Ta again!

 

Just put down in the ammuntion section

 

.243 WIN (EXPANDING)

 

This will allow you to buy FMJ and Expanding, so long as you justify the use of using section 5 expanding ammo.

 

.17HMR you will struggle to find in FMJ as the bullet is usually too quick for ranges (It's usually based on speed, not power )

 

Just put down expanding for all ammo, so long as you have a use for it. I seriously doubt you'll get .17HMR for targets, but I'm sure there are people out there who have succeeded!

Edited March 16, 2010 by harfordwmj

[SSS]

If you specify expanding ammunition on your application, it will cover your ****, but put it for ALL the calibres you are applying for.

 

As for the target thing, I could not be sure, I don't do any myself.

 

Best advice I could give is, put down reason for owning .243, fox, deer, vermin, and target shooting. That way, everything is covered.

 

Hope that helps.

All the best,

SSS

[garyb]

Don't trust everything your friend says

 

There is plenty of target ammo - both factory and reloads available for 243.

 

Last time I was at bisley a friend of mine was paper punching with Factory Sako target rounds in .243Win

[albob]

.17HMR you will struggle to find in FMJ as the bullet is usually too quick for ranges (It's usually based on speed, not power )

 

hornady make them to.

 

 

al

[Ackley]

Ok... about to put my FAC app in... My mentor (who is VERY experienced and I take his advice as gospel but he is a very busy man and I don't want to pester him anymore on this!) tells me that all .243 ammo is expanding ammo and that in fact they don't make non expanding (i.e.FMJ) ammo in this calibre or if they do it's like rocking horse droppings to get hold of bacause a. it's not a NATO round and b. there is no demand for it as .243 bench rest shooting does not tend to happen in the USA.

 

I am requesting .243 win as my only CF calibre to be used for paid for stalks (about to go on my DSC1 course) and fox (when I find some permissions) but also target shooting with my club. The rules state that I cannot use expanding ammo for target shooting or target comps... I'm really getting confused here please help.... what the chuff am I asking for on my application.

 

Oh, also, how do I request moderators on my application as I want one for each, 22LR, .17HMR & .243Win? The BASC website doesn't offer any help on that one.

 

Thanks

Paul

sounds to me your mentor needs educating and it seems you shouldnt take his word as gospel

[Billy.]

sounds to me your mentor needs educating and it seems you shouldnt take his word as gospel

 

Agreed. I think your mentor says a few things that sound right, but he's completely wrong

Edited March 17, 2010 by harfordwmj

[Harnser]

Wouldnt a .308 / 7.62 be a better calibre , if you want to do target shooting as well .

 

Harnser .

[Vipa]

Get a mentor who knows what he is talking about is step 1.

 

 

Ok guys.... enough of the tear downs... this is probably more to do with my misunderstanding of what he was telling me rather than the information being incorrect. Trust me, he is a very senior forces bod (SO1 level, do a google search,) is a trained and qualified marksman, has served with special forces and is an MOD deer management professional and a bloody good game shot too etc.. etc... I think I can safely say that he has probably forgotten more about weapons and ammunition than most on here will probably ever hope to learn!

 

I did say in my original thread that I was confused and didn't want to bother this chap any more as he has far more important things to do than spend what free time he has talking to me about bullet heads!

 

So thanks for the help people, things are now a little clearer but please, if you can't say anything constructive, don't say anything at all and hurling insults at someone who I deeply respect and trust just gets my back up!

Edited March 17, 2010 by Vipa

[Vipa]

Wouldnt a .308 / 7.62 be a better calibre , if you want to do target shooting as well .

 

Harnser .

 

I did ask that question as I was originally thinking .308 but I am told that it is possibly overkill in UK for muntjack/roe etc and that from 100-150yds it would do too much damage to the meat. It would be great for longer ranges in Scotland though but that's not where I'm at right now.

[Billy.]

Trust me, he is a very senior forces bod GREAT!(SO1 level, do a google search,) is a trained and qualified marksman EXCELLENT!, has served with special forces and is an MOD deer management professional AMAZING! and a bloody good game shot too etc.. etc... FANDABBYDOSEY!

 

As much as I trust peoples' life stories, I'd sometimes take some things with a pinch of salt. Did he tell you his life story just like you've explained it?

 

It's hardly a teardown on your part, it's actually on his, for feeding you this info which is ridiculous.

[Vipa]

As much as I trust peoples' life stories, I'd sometimes take some things with a pinch of salt. Did he tell you his life story just like you've explained it?

 

It's hardly a teardown on your part, it's actually on his, for feeding you this info which is ridiculous.

 

Oh hey, come on, you have absolutely no idea of my relationship with this guy .... this isn't someones secret fantasy or someone I met down the pub last Saturday.... I met him on base quite some years ago when I was arranging his mortgage for him and we've been friends since. I've been stalking with him and eaten the resultant venison with the rest of my family, I've seen the pictures, the certificates, the medals, I've talked to him about his experiences during multiple tours of Afganistan and Iraq.

 

If this is the kind of response I'm going to get from asking for clarification on something I just won't bother in the future...

 

Thanks guys

[Billy.]

Oh hey, come on, you have absolutely no idea of my relationship with this guy .... this isn't someones secret fantasy or someone I met down the pub last Saturday.... I met him on base quite some years ago when I was arranging his mortgage for him and we've been friends since. I've been stalking with him and eaten the resultant venison with the rest of my family, I've seen the pictures, the certificates, the medals, I've talked to him about his experiences during multiple tours of Afganistan and Iraq.

 

If this is the kind of response I'm going to get from asking for clarification on something I just won't bother in the future...

 

Thanks guys

 

I'm not trying to discourage you here or anything, I'm just pointing out that it's easy for people to say things and for their words to be taken as gospel.

[Vipa]

I'm not trying to discourage you here or anything, I'm just pointing out that it's easy for people to say things and for their words to be taken as gospel.

 

And as I say.... if it was someone I'd met down the pub on Saturday I'd agree.... I'm not a gullible young soul and tend to move (because of my job) in quite lofty circles, I've known this guy and his wife for over ten years and shared in the horror with his wife when we thought he'd been killed!.. From your point of view he could have been my brother in law. Don't be quick to make assumptions about peoples backgrounds. I will say though that he is not the highest ranking friend I have. My daughters god father was a colonel in the US airforce and has a nice plaque on his wall from the governor of the state of California thanking him for his contribution to the first gulf war... He was an MH-53J Pave Low Helicopter pilot (http://www.minihelicopter.net/MH53JPaveLowIIIE/index.htm) now retired, he led the first wave of helicopter gunships into Iraqi airspace in 1990 to take out their radar installations! Now that was an exciting career!

[Harnser]

Viper ,

I have read on this forum many times about meat damage to deer shot with centre fire rifles . Any body who has shot deer over many years will not be worried about a few ounces of meat damage if the beast is killed cleanly by a potent round like a .270 or 30 calibre . you shouldnt be choosing a calibre for deer stalking because it damages less meat . More meat is damaged on a deer by poor butchering than by bullet damage . Dont misunderstand ,the .243 is a very good stalking round and will kill most deer cleanly if used properly . But in my humble opinion it is not the best one gun stalking calibre , you would do better to buy a .270 or the .308 . Then if you have to address those big lowland stags you wont be wondering , have I got enough gun , I do speak from experiance . Any how good luck with your choice . an old Norfolk saying is ," to much gun is better than not enough ."

 

Harnser .

Edited March 17, 2010 by Harnser

[Vipa]

Viper ,

I have read on this forum many times about meat damage to deer shot with centre fire rifles . Any body who has shot deer over many years will not be worried about a few ounces of meat damage if the beast is killed cleanly by a potent round like a .270 or 30 calibre . you shouldnt be choosing a calibre for deer stalking because it damages less meat . More meat is damaged on a deer by poor butchering than by bullet damage . Dont misunderstand ,the .243 is a very good stalking round and will kill most deer cleanly if used properly . But in my humble opinion it is not the best one gun stalking calibre , you would do better to buy a .270 or the .308 . Then if you have to address those big lowland stags you wont be wondering , have I got enough gun , I do speak from experiance . Any how good luck with your choice . an old Norfolk saying is ," to much gun is better than not enough ."

 

Harnser .

 

Thanks Harnser

 

Just got back from the gun club and the club president is my second ref on my FAC app. After talking about where I want to go with this we decided that my best way forward was to forget the .17HMR for now (just stick with good old .22LR) and request both .243 and .308, both for stalking so both with expanding ammo, that way I have the correct tools for any situation I may end up putting myself in AND the .308 is a better target competition round. Thoughts??

[Paul223]

Thanks Harnser

 

Just got back from the gun club and the club president is my second ref on my FAC app. After talking about where I want to go with this we decided that my best way forward was to forget the .17HMR for now (just stick with good old .22LR) and request both .243 and .308, both for stalking so both with expanding ammo, that way I have the correct tools for any situation I may end up putting myself in AND the .308 is a better target competition round. Thoughts??

Don't think you can have a club official on application, just renewal?

[Vipa]

Don't think you can have a club official on application, just renewal?

 

If the intended use of the firearm is target shooting one of the referees has to be a club official. Only the .243 & .308s will be used on quarry (for now) the .22LR will be target only.

[albob]

Thanks Harnser

 

Just got back from the gun club and the club president is my second ref on my FAC app. After talking about where I want to go with this we decided that my best way forward was to forget the .17HMR for now (just stick with good old .22LR) and request both .243 and .308, both for stalking so both with expanding ammo, that way I have the correct tools for any situation I may end up putting myself in AND the .308 is a better target competition round. Thoughts??

 

why not get the hmr slot and you can drop it later if,you decide it is not of use to you.

saves getting and paying for a variation later for the hmr..just a thought.

al

Edited March 17, 2010 by albob

[Vipa]

why not get the hmr slot and you can drop it later if,you decide it is not of use to you.

saves getting and paying for a variation later for the hmr..just a thought.

al

 

The issue I have with the .17HMR is that, whilst I waould love one for vermin control etc and would prefer that over a .22, As I have no permissions yet I think I will struggle to convince plod that I need it for pure target shooting as it's not a round known for that.

[Paul223]

If the intended use of the firearm is target shooting one of the referees has to be a club official. Only the .243 & .308s will be used on quarry (for now) the .22LR will be target only.

:yp: as I understand it only on renewal

 

10.9 If the chief officer of police is satisfied

under section 44 of the 1997 Act that the

application is for the renewal of a firearm

certificate in relation to a rifle or muzzleloading

pistol for use only for target

shooting, one of the referees must be an

official of the approved rifle or muzzleloading

pistol club specified in the

application. In these circumstances, the

referee may be a registered firearms dealer

and need not have known the applicant

personally for at least two years. The other

referee must satisfy the requirements of

paragraph 10.6 B above and must not be a

member of any target-shooting club.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Paul223

[Paul223]

10.6

B. to be endorsed by two people who are

resident in Great Britain, who have known

the applicant personally for at least two

years and who are of good character.

These two people must have agreed to

act as referees to the applicant

 

10.8 Members of the applicant’s family may

not act as referees. In the absence of a

Court ruling, family is taken to mean the

following: mother; father; son; daughter;

sister; brother; aunt; uncle; grand parent and

mother/father/sister/brother in law. Cousins

are not regarded as immediate family but cohabiting

partners should be considered as

“family” for these purposes and not be

accepted. Serving police officers, police

civilian employees and registered firearms

dealers (but see paragraph 10.9) may not

act as referees.

 

click down load and save, then study

Firearms Law

Guidance to the Police

:yp:

Edited March 17, 2010 by Paul223

[Vipa]

10.6

B. to be endorsed by two people who are

resident in Great Britain, who have known

the applicant personally for at least two

years and who are of good character.

These two people must have agreed to

act as referees to the applicant

 

10.8 Members of the applicant’s family may

not act as referees. In the absence of a

Court ruling, family is taken to mean the

following: mother; father; son; daughter;

sister; brother; aunt; uncle; grand parent and

mother/father/sister/brother in law. Cousins

are not regarded as immediate family but cohabiting

partners should be considered as

“family” for these purposes and not be

accepted. Serving police officers, police

civilian employees and registered firearms

dealers (but see paragraph 10.9) may not

act as referees.

 

google

Firearms Law

Guidance to the Police

:yp:

 

 

Yep... you are right Paul, just checked BASC guidance and that concurrs although there is nothing to say a club official can't act as a referee and as I've known him personally for over 3 years it shouldn't pose a problem