Steel shot.............Warning

[poontang]

I've often read on here that it's safe to use steel shot through anything up to and including 1/2 choke, and in a multi-choked gun with chokes specifically designed to handle steel i would agree that this is usually the case. However, what i didn't know, until now, is that steel shot cannot be used through fixed choke barrels, irrelevant of how the gun is choked.

Below is a scan from a Browning information booklet which came with my new gun. Note the part i've circled in red. I would assume this is because steel shot chokes are made to withstand the pressures involved as steel won't 'compress' through the choke? whereas fixed choke barrels are not.

I would guess the same would apply to Winchester and Miroku guns too as they're all pretty much the same.

 

So just a little heads up that if you're using steel through fixed choke barrels it might be worth checking that it's safe to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest cookoff013]

just buy a cyl / cyl barrel set ! ( that is no choke or .000" restriction.)

 

no-one can argue with that !

(!)

Edited July 17, 2010 by cookoff013

[UKPoacher]

[poontang]

just buy a cyl / cyl barrel set ! ( that is no choke or .000" restriction.)

 

no-one can argue with that !

(!)

 

It seems like Browning can.

 

Even cylinder fixed choke barrels are not suitable for steel according to them. As i said i'm guessing that as the barrel walls are fairly thin at the muzzle of a fixed choke barrel (compared to their multi-chokes) they can't cope with steel passing through.

It's certainly a grey area, and one that needs to be clarified. Cartridge manufacturers state steel is ok, but the gun manufacturers seem to say something different concerning fixed choke guns. I would think if steel was used and blew the muzzle then Browning, for one, would point to their literature, which would of course negate any action against them.

[Guest topshot_2k]

i would follow brownings instructions rather than a marketing leaflet from a cartridge manufacturer.

[poontang]

i would follow brownings instructions rather than a marketing leaflet from a cartridge manufacturer.

 

My thoughts exactly

[fortune82]

As far as I can see there is a load of **** talked about steel.

 

Browning are no doubt covering themselves for the litigation happy USA.

 

I have fired hundreds of 32 gram steel shots through a winchester 101 with no problems at all. I have also fired a similar quantity through an AYA fixed choke sxs. At a Browning open day at East Yorks Gun Club last weekend a Browning salesman told me a fixed choke MK60 was steel proofed.

 

I have been informed by 3 seperate gunsmiths that steel is fine to shoot through a gun with 2 3/4 inch chambers and no more than half choke.

 

Where are all these guns that have been destroyed by steel? Ive yet to see one!!

[BlaserF3]

This http://www.chuckhawks.com/steel_shot.htm is written buy a reputable American writer.

 

This http://www.browningint.com/fiches/steelshot.html is from the Miroku catalogue.

 

A maximum of half choke is recommended.

[Guest topshot_2k]

i own a browing semi auto and a winchester ou both are specifically proofed and marked for high performance steel shot. As the OP states his browning is unsuitable for steel, there must be a valid reason why browning would state this in the manual.

 

At then of the day you can use steel as suggested by some members in this thread, but he's not the guy who made the gun. He's also not the one who has got to pull the trigger!

Edited July 17, 2010 by topshot_2k

[Guest topshot_2k]

out of interest, what model is the gun?

[poontang]

i own a browing semi auto and a winchester ou both are specifically proofed and marked for high performance steel shot. As the OP states his browning is unsuitable for steel, there must be a valid reason why browning would state this in the manual.

 

At then of the day you can use steel as suggested by some members in this thread, but he's not the guy who made the gun. He's also not the one who has got to pull the trigger!

 

My gun is the Browning b425 waterfowl and is proofed for high performance steel.

 

What i was pointing out was what's written in the Browning information booklet, which covers all 425 models. It clearly states that they do not recommend steel in their fixed choke models. (The part i've circled in red).

We often see on here people asking if they can use steel safely in their guns, and i have to say it seems very much a grey area at the moment. I've made my own mind up on what guns i would/would not use with steel, and i tend to go with what the gun manufacturer recommends, not a cartridge manufacturer.

[Guest topshot_2k]

ah right my mistake, it may be the manual just needs updating as far i can see all brownings in the current range are steel proofed. As you say its a grey area and it really does need addressing asap.

Edited July 17, 2010 by topshot_2k

[slimshooter]

I think its all down to what is stamped on the barrels and chokes. I believe steel proofed barrels have to be stamped. My chokes state lead only depending on which ones. Paper work and cartridge boxes can say anything, its what is stamped on the barrel to me that we should follow. If there not stamped steel proof, lead only shot.

[poontang]

I think its all down to what is stamped on the barrels and chokes. I believe steel proofed barrels have to be stamped. My chokes state lead only depending on which ones. Paper work and cartridge boxes can say anything, its what is stamped on the barrel to me that we should follow. If there not stamped steel proof, lead only shot.

 

Quite right.

In which case the Gamebore advert is misleading, as it states that any 2 3/4" chambered gun can use std steel loads up to 32g and shot size 4/5, which is clearly not the case with fixed choke guns.

I have checked the Browning/Miroku/Winchester site and it confirms that steel shot should not be used in their fixed choke guns. I haven't looked at other manufacturers websites though i would expect them to say the same.

As has been said many times it really is a grey area, and it's about time all interested parties got together and came up with a definitive answer.

[UKPoacher]

Poontang, as I read your manual, the first page indicates that you can use steel for any choke except full (1/1)

 

Secondly, Blazer's link to the article written by Randy Wakeman is dated 2008. Things have changed and moved on since then.

 

Thirdly, I realise that Topshot is totally anti-steel and this comes across in all his posts. Interestingly his experiences do not tally with others who regularly use steel Do you really think that a company like Gamebore would advertise that it is OK to use steel and lay themselves open to all sorts of claims if they were not sure that steel was OK if used as directed? Ten million shells and no reported damage? Where are all these damaged guns?

 

It's bull poo!

 

Here's a clip from the Browning web site: Browning Web Site Q&A

 

Question:

Can I shoot steel shot in my Browning shotgun?

Answer:

 

All current Browning shotguns with the Invector or Invector-Plus choke tube system are fully steel shot compatible with current factory loads. However, there are limitations to the compatibility of many older Browning shotguns with conventionally choked barrels. In certain models, shooting steel shot may cause a slight "ringe bulge" just inches behind the muzzle. The damage to your gun is purely cosmetic, but the "bulge" can be a factor in resale, especially with collector-grade shotguns.

 

 

 

Accordingly, our recommendations concerning the use of steel shot in Browning shotguns is as follows:

 

 

 

1. WILL ACCEPT ALL CURRENT FACTORY STEEL SHOT LOADS: All Browning shotguns with the Invector choke or Invector-Plus tube systems, However, we do not recommend the use of Invector full or extra full chokes with steel shot. They pattern too tightly, and sometimes result in a "blown" pattern.

2. WILL ACCEPT ALL CURRENT FACTORY STEEL SHOT LOADS EXCEPT THOSE WITH T, F, BB AND BBB SIZE SHOT: The B-2000 and B-80 shotguns with conventional chokes (Non-Invector)

3. DO NO USE ANY STEEL SHOT LOADS: The Belgian-made A-5, Superposed, Leige, and other Belgian Over/Under models, Double Automatic, American-made A-5 and all other models not listed in category 1 or 2. Note: Belgian Auto-5 barrels are interchangeable with the new Invector barrels which are made in Japan. With this new Invector barrel installed on the Belgian-made Auto-5 receiver, steel shot loads can be used.

 

 

 

DAMAGE: In not all, but a number of instances a very slight ring will develop about 1 1/2" to 3" rearward of the muzzle. This ring is about .005 of an inch deep, completely encircling the barrel. From our tests we could determine no adverse effect on pattern or shot velocity because of this ring. Our conclusion is that the most significant objection, the slight ring, is entirely cosmetic. This "ring" effect does not affect the function or safety of the firearm.

 

 

 

YEAR OF PRODUCTION: Nearly all Browning firearms manufactured after 1975 have two letters in the serial number. The two letters indicate the year of manufacture: M=0, Z=1, Y=2, X=3, W=4, V=5, T=6, R=7, P=8, N=9.

 

 

 

FUTURE: Obviously, we have no control over the ammunition companies and the loads they will produce in the future. So, if in doubt, please check with us or the ammunition company before using new loads in your shotgun.

Edited July 18, 2010 by UKPoacher

[Guest topshot_2k]

Poontang, as I read your manual, the first page indicates that you can use steel for any choke except full (1/1)

 

Secondly, Blazer's link to the article written by Randy Wakeman is dated 2008. Things have changed and moved on since then.

 

Thirdly, I realise that Topshot is totally anti-steel and this comes across in all his posts. Interestingly his experiences do not tally with others who regularly use steel Do you really think that a company like Gamebore would advertise that it is OK to use steel and lay themselves open to all sorts of claims if they were not sure that steel was OK if used as directed? Ten million shells and no reported damage? Where are all these damaged guns?

 

It's bull poo!

 

Here's a clip from the Browning web site: Browning Web Site Q&A

 

Read it again, INVECTOR choke guns are ALL suitable for steel. FIXED choked guns are NOT.

 

I am anti steel for anything other than when it has to be used, i even use it on inland ducks.

 

You choose to believe the marketing material from a compnay trying to sell their product over the gun manufacturers own recommendations?? What have browning got to gain from telling you not use steel in guns not proofed for it?? :blink:

 

Your own link states that browning has found damage albeit 'cosmetic' to the barrel on fixed choke guns. I wouldn't take any statements such as gamebores '10million shells and no damage to guns' as fact, they are hardly going to say the opposite

 

 

Its worrying to see how many people are on the steel bandwagon and even go as far to tell other people to use it their guns, completley ignoring the manufacturers warnings

Edited July 18, 2010 by topshot_2k

[UKPoacher]

Read it again, INVECTOR choke guns are ALL suitable for steel. FIXED choked guns are NOT.

 

I am anti steel for anything other than when it has to be used, i even use it on inland ducks.

 

You choose to believe the marketing material from a compnay trying to sell their product over the gun manufacturers own recommendations?? What have browning got to gain from telling you not use steel in guns not proofed for it?? :blink:

 

Your own link states that browning has found damage albeit 'cosmetic' to the barrel on fixed choke guns. I wouldn't take any statements such as gamebores '10million shells and no damage to guns' as fact, they are hardly going to say the opposite

 

 

Its worrying to see how many people are on the steel bandwagon and even go as far to tell other people to use it their guns, completley ignoring the manufacturers warnings

 

Are you totally thick?

 

Browning say that you can safely use steel on all their guns except on a few early models listed. They also say:

 

DAMAGE: In not all, but a number of instances a very slight ring will develop about 1 1/2" to 3" rearward of the muzzle. This ring is about .005 of an inch deep, completely encircling the barrel. From our tests we could determine no adverse effect on pattern or shot velocity because of this ring. Our conclusion is that the most significant objection, the slight ring, is entirely cosmetic. This "ring" effect does not affect the function or safety of the firearm.

 

I take it you don't go abroad on holiday in case you fall off the earth?

[Guest topshot_2k]

so gamebores leaflet stating no damage to guns is false then :blink: And this is just brownings, what about other older guns with fixed chokes?? Winchesters for example that where made before browning built them under license?

 

This is my point, people posting and saying 'yea steel is safe in all guns, look gamebore say so' is an accident waiting to happen

[poontang]

Poontang, as I read your manual, the first page indicates that you can use steel for any choke except full (1/1)

 

Secondly, Blazer's link to the article written by Randy Wakeman is dated 2008. Things have changed and moved on since then.

 

Thirdly, I realise that Topshot is totally anti-steel and this comes across in all his posts. Interestingly his experiences do not tally with others who regularly use steel Do you really think that a company like Gamebore would advertise that it is OK to use steel and lay themselves open to all sorts of claims if they were not sure that steel was OK if used as directed? Ten million shells and no reported damage? Where are all these damaged guns?

 

It's bull poo!

 

Indeed the first page of the manual covers multi-choked guns, which will take steel shot. However, as mentioned in my original post it's the fixed choke barrels that are the problem.

You may think the manual is out of date and things are different now, but check the Browning website and you will notice that none of their fixed choke guns are steel proofed. The same applies to Miroku guns on their site. I have to say that i agree with topshot_2k in that i prefer to go with the manufactureres recommendations as opposed to a cartridge manufacturer.

Just as a matter of interest, would you be happy to buy a gun with a ringed barrel? I know i wouldn't and i doubt many others would either.

I guess it's up to each individual to make up their own minds on this one, as there seems to be conflicting views from the gun/cartridge manufacturers. I don't own a fixed choke gun but if i did, would i use steel through it? No i wouldn't.

[MC]

I know out several people (Me included) who have shot steel cartridges through a fixed choke gun. Most of these have been Baikals that are built like the proverbial cheiftan tank and there has been no ill effects. However if you do use it then it is done so at your own risk and IF the manufacturer of your gun says that it is not advisable then you really do so at your own risk.

 

 

I only own one gun that isn't Superior steel proofed anyway and that is only a 2 3/4" chamber so you can't get high peformance steel shot in that length so it is not an issue.

 

If any manufacturer of any of my guns said it was not advisable then I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't argue about it on an internet forum, any injury that occurred then you would be personally liable.

 

The simple answer is if you need to use steel then get a gun that is capable of doing so. Cutting corners is at least foolish, at worst it is downright dangerous.

[UKPoacher]

so gamebores leaflet stating no damage to guns is false then........

 

From the Browning website:

 

All current Browning shotguns with the Invector or Invector-Plus choke tube system are fully steel shot compatible with current factory loads. However, there are limitations to the compatibility of many older Browning shotguns with conventionally choked barrels. In certain models, shooting steel shot may cause a slight "ringe bulge" just inches behind the muzzle. The damage to your gun is purely cosmetic, but the "bulge" can be a factor in resale, especially with collector-grade shotguns.

 

This ring is about .005 of an inch deep, completely encircling the barrel. From our tests we could determine no adverse effect on pattern or shot velocity because of this ring. Our conclusion is that the most significant objection, the slight ring, is entirely cosmetic. This "ring" effect does not affect the function or safety of the firearm.

 

Cosmetic, not dangerous. Do you both get it yet?

[Guest topshot_2k]

so gamebores leaflet stating no damage to guns is false then

As i said, gamebore are still wrong then?

 

So a damaged gun is ok if it not dangerous? :blink:, hope no one with a nice old english gun take gamebores advice and halves the value of their gun ?

Like i said, what about other manufacturers?

 

do you work for gamebore?

 

Anyway i have given my input. You make your own choices, just dont be misguided by steel fanatics waving cartridge leaflets in your face

Edited July 18, 2010 by topshot_2k

[poontang]

Cosmetic, not dangerous. Do you both get it yet?

 

Bit touchy aren't we?

 

Cosmetic or not my point is that steel shot is not recommended in fixed choke guns.

 

If you want a bulging ring, go for it.

 

It's your gun, your choice.

[UKPoacher]

Bit touchy aren't we?

 

Cosmetic or not my point is that steel shot is not recommended in fixed choke guns.

 

If you want a bulging ring, go for it.

 

It's your gun, your choice.

 

No shot is recommended in any manufacturers guns other than for purely commercial purposes. There is nothing on the Browning website to say that they do not recommend steel shot. It is purely your interpretation.

 

A microscopic five thousands of an inch mark on an old Browning isn't going to make or break a sale. Especially in a few years time when lead is banned and they've all been used with steel shot:- assuming that it does cause this cosmetic damage.

 

Of course our resident anti-steel clown has gone way off tangent again to try and salvage a lost debate. Unless you can show me otherwise there is nothing to say that Gamebore's new steel cartridges will cause damage to the fixed choke Browning. Again, you both choose to interpret things loosely to try and prove a lost cause.

 

If your precious Churchill or Holland & Holland was damaged by using steel cartridges. Don't you think you would have a case against the cartridge maker given their advertised guarantee?

[poontang]

No shot is recommended in any manufacturers guns other than for purely commercial purposes. There is nothing on the Browning website to say that they do not recommend steel shot. It is purely your interpretation.

 

A microscopic five thousands of an inch mark on an old Browning isn't going to make or break a sale. Especially in a few years time when lead is banned and they've all been used with steel shot:- assuming that it does cause this cosmetic damage.

 

Of course our resident anti-steel clown has gone way off tangent again to try and salvage a lost debate. Unless you can show me otherwise there is nothing to say that Gamebore's new steel cartridges will cause damage to the fixed choke Browning. Again, you both choose to interpret things loosely to try and prove a lost cause.

 

If your precious Churchill or Holland & Holland was damaged by using steel cartridges. Don't you think you would have a case against the cartridge maker given their advertised guarantee?

 

Not a lost cause at all.

 

Look at the Browning website, and check the 525 fixed choke guns. They are not steel proofed. The table they show in their manual regarding fixed choke guns specifically states NO steel shot to be used, either standard or high performance. As i've said i don't own a fixed choke gun, but if i did i would follow manufacturers recommendations and not use steel.

We're going round in circles here, at the end of the day we all decide what to put through our guns. My original point was, and still is, that it's not such a clear cut choice as some would have us believe.