lead shot powder primers

[mark47]

Hi just wondering where people buy there lead shot powder and primers from .I live in Norwich any info would be much appreciated.regards mark

[sitsinhedges]

I make my own shot to make reloading viable, and buy everything else from Peter Lawman but Clay & Game reloaders would be closer for you.

[Guest cookoff013]

I make my own shot to make reloading viable, and buy everything else from Peter Lawman but Clay & Game reloaders would be closer for you.

 

+1

[Floating Chamber]

I make my own lead shot too and don't buy my stuff from anyone!

 

Edit: (To qualify the above) There are sooo many failed and frustrated homeloaders out there keen to GIVE their stuff away!

Edited December 19, 2010 by Floating Chamber

[fruitloop]

I make my own shot to make reloading viable, and buy everything else from Peter Lawman but Clay & Game reloaders would be closer for you.

me to

[Guest cookoff013]

i reload steel. i just buy shot.

 

for me reloading is not an economic decision. i just load for fun.

 

it is true about failed homeloaders, i know several, who shouldnt be allowed near a loader !

there are so many mistakes to be made by people not knowing what they are doing.

some guys using "any" powder they can get their hands on, then making up their own recipes.

 

for instance a 21g cartridge made by a manufacturer, my associate tried to emulate this by adding 21 grains of powder to an oz of shot ! that is crazy and he said its too expensive to load now. at that powder charge i`m not suprised. and he was even intentionally double charging (2x powder) so it cost him 15p in powder, ending up 30p a shot.

in old money thats £300 / 1000.

 

"every cartridge had 1oz of shot" -"they just change the powder" - (false)

no, different powders drive different amounts of shot at different speeds, and different pressures.

not all cartridges has 1oz of shot.

 

"adding more powder"-"wacks `em `ard, it does !" (false)

adding more powder to a recipe increases pressure, it can increase speed, maybe 20fps. but at some point the powder gets out of its comfort zone, pressures go up ! often to un safe proportions.

 

most powders can make something leave the barrel, its just what peformance, there is no point in shooting a naff cartridge.

-infact the noble data doesnt recomend vectan as a powder for 20g it is much too fast.

-there are some recipes floating about without proof data. that would show you how stressed the powder is.

 

i`m not supprised, that some fail at this.

i`ve helped lots of guys get started, especially loading steel. i try to get guys shooting good ammo asap. there are some doos and donts.

- newspaper is not a good wad for steel or lead reloads. i`d just like to point this out, cork from your wine bottles are not good wads either.

 

you wouldnt believe the rubbish i`ve heard.

 

there are some powders that are suitable for steel shot loading that arnt used. there just isnt any data to support that.

 

there just isnt the data out there.

[sitsinhedges]

Are you saying all Vectan Powders are too fast for 20gauge

 

The available recipes for A1/A0 would seem to suggest otherwise.

[Redgum]

I reload 12 gauge because I was given a redding press and 20kilos of no6 shot, bought 2 pound of red dot and 2 of green dot cheap off someone who gave up reloading. Floating Chamber( who I cant thank enough) donated the redding bushings I needed. I bought 500 cheddite primers and enough fibre wads off Norman Clark at the Midland game fair. Its very interesting this reloading thing and am experimenting with lighter loads as my son is just taking to the 12gauge. The very first of my reloads I fired killed a very fast and high pigeon coming into roost so I was well please. Its a bit like making purse nets, its not cost effective at all but you can customise the finished product to suit your needs and it is hugely satisfying to catch or shoot your prey in something you have put together.

[Guest cookoff013]

AS a powder for 20g it is much too fast.

-there are some recipes floating about without proof data. that would show you how stressed the powder is.

the as should be vectan AS

 

vectan AS is just alittle too fast for the 20 gauge. noble dont recomend it for the 20. they provide no data for it.

 

http://www.nobelsport.fr/nobelsport/fr/schedules/vec_as.html

 

classic example.

the only way they make it work in .410 is a 10g load. they wont publish for 20gauge... "i wonder why"

-

mainly because it will only shoot silly light loads ion the 20gauge. loads as little as 19-18 grams. i believe there is some data to support a 21g load but it has no pressure data with it. i bet its very hot. maybe in excess of 11,000psi. which is hot but still classed as safe.

 

A1 and A0 are more suited to the larger payloads in 12, and normal payloads in 20, 28 gauge etc....

they burn alot slower.

[sitsinhedges]

What I can never understand about the Nobelsport data is the fact that it gives a powder charge for a plastic wad without actually stating what actual wad it is.

Other recipes demonstrate that differing wads can alter pressures by a significant amount, so have they taken the worst case scenario and thus everything is safe or does it refer to a specific un-named wad with possible consequences if another is used

Edited December 19, 2010 by sitsinhedges

[sitsinhedges]

What I can never understand about the Nobelsport data is the fact that it gives a powder charge for a plastic wad without actually stating what actual wad it is.

Other recipes demonstrate that differing wads can alter pressures by a significant amount, so have they taken the worst case scenario and thus everything is safe or does it refer to a specific un-named wad with possible consequences if another is used

 

 

I also got some 'Clever' cartridge 'Mirage' empties in 20g and found the fibre wads were very firm in them so I assume up goes the pressures again when compared against a looser fitting shell but I doubt any data could be found for that

[Guest cookoff013]

i`m led to believe these are the maximum powder charges with any wads. i`m not sure but lots of wads were tested and these are the maximum powder charges, with the wads that give the higher pressures.

 

they sell powder, not advertise someone elses wads.

 

i still say when reloading, hit 9000 psi in a load, that gives a 5000psi safe buffer range before the load hits the 14000psi. thats the industry maximum, most manufacturers have a self imposed limit of 12000psi, thats still high.

 

it takes alot of effort to get a load from 9000psi to anywhere near 14kpsi.

 

some loads are naturally high anyway, bigger payloads need powders that only perform at higher pressures, normally slower burning ones.

thats why i always say go for a powder that hits that magic number, most powders burn well, gives great performance (speed) at safe pressures.

 

there is no point in shooting a crappe load.

 

if you were to have a 12g gun and a 20g sleeve set in it, and fired many loads, that were high pressure, it will crack the tubes. or it may take just one to crack the chamber.

looking at A1 data. it happens to be an alright powder, not a great performer. but is versatile.

[Guest cookoff013]

I also got some 'Clever' cartridge 'Mirage' empties in 20g and found the fibre wads were very firm in them so I assume up goes the pressures again when compared against a looser fitting shell but I doubt any data could be found for that

 

different brands of fibre wad. i`ve used overbore ones, they make many for the different muzzeloaders. some just make it onto the 12g reloading market. they even make a 13gauge wad.

 

i dont think the pressures would go up, "too much" with a tighter fitting wad.

 

i heard rumors of a guy who stripped 2000 handloaded cartridges, because he thought they were too much pressure, he put on 35lbs of wad pressure instead of 30lbs. thats silly.

they dont publish the lbs of wad pressure either do they.?

 

just 20-25lbs of wad pressure should be good enough for every average cartridge.

[sitsinhedges]

different brands of fibre wad. i`ve used overbore ones, they make many for the different muzzeloaders. some just make it onto the 12g reloading market. they even make a 13gauge wad.

 

i dont think the pressures would go up, "too much" with a tighter fitting wad.

 

i heard rumors of a guy who stripped 2000 handloaded cartridges, because he thought they were too much pressure, he put on 35lbs of wad pressure instead of 30lbs. thats silly.

they dont publish the lbs of wad pressure either do they.?

 

just 20-25lbs of wad pressure should be good enough for every average cartridge.

 

I usually put a minimum of wad pressure just enough to seat on the powder unless I need more space for the crimp. Never could see the point of compressing a wad too much.

[Floating Chamber]

What I can never understand about the Nobelsport data is the fact that it gives a powder charge for a plastic wad without actually stating what actual wad it is.

Other recipes demonstrate that differing wads can alter pressures by a significant amount, so have they taken the worst case scenario and thus everything is safe or does it refer to a specific un-named wad with possible consequences if another is used

 

Nobel Sport and other manufacturers' 'recipes' are only approximate doses. They are for the trade. The 'data' gives the development depts. a rough idea where to start.

 

Trusted recipes are found on Bordingl, Clay and Game etc.

[Guest cookoff013]

i use many recipes to cross reference other recipes;

 

often the same ones keep cropping up, usually with some pressure / speed data. i select what ever speed or pressure.

 

using the right powder thats in the right range is the first hurdle.

[sitsinhedges]

I thought the powder manufacturers were supposed to supply data nowadays but all they seem to do is toss in a few random recipes to fulfil their obligations rather than publish an exhaustive list that is actually useful to reloaders.

 

All the sites such as Bordingl post recipes that use components we are unlikely to be using over here.

 

The Clay and Game CD data is very good and is largely what I use but most recipes on there are lacking pressure data or velocities etc.

 

It's easy to see how daunting this can be for somebody looking to start reloading.

[Floating Chamber]

I thought the powder manufacturers were supposed to supply data nowadays but all they seem to do is toss in a few random recipes to fulfil their obligations rather than publish an exhaustive list that is actually useful to reloaders.

 

All the sites such as Bordingl post recipes that use components we are unlikely to be using over here.

 

The Clay and Game CD data is very good and is largely what I use but most recipes on there are lacking pressure data or velocities etc.

 

It's easy to see how daunting this can be for somebody looking to start reloading.

 

They're not obliged to do anything. There is always a footnote saying something like: 'make sure you get your loads tested' and even on the cartridge boxes it says ' reloading of these cartridges is dangerous and should not be done.'

Daunting? True. 'They' don't really want you to reload.

 

My loads are safe because they are tested. I have my own lead-crusher gun.

 

Bordingl site is for Italians. They do not live in this Nanny State.

[Guest cookoff013]

vivhohori (sp) dont even release loading data for shells.

but they still make lots of powder.