k_h Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hi applying for firearms certificate soon and wondering does the ammunition need to be stored in a safe built to the same standard as the cabinet or would an old ammo box padlocked and bolted down be acceptable. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I got a cheap safe over the internet, think it was from Screwfix. Started with a tiny key lock one that was really too small, so went for a digital one as less keys to loose! They were more than happy with that. Not sure how secure the ammo box would be. Mine was something around the £30 mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_h Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Cheers for that sort of money I cant really go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 This is the one http://www.screwfix.com/prods/70942/Security/Safes/Burglary-Safes/Security-Safe-16-3Ltr I used my own fixings as theirs were rather flimsy. I sat it above my cabinet and drilled through from the cabninet to the safe and bolted the two together for extra security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 This crops up from time to time and the answer is YES, your cabinet/FAC ammo store needs to be to BS7558:92. Then things get interesting, some regions/FEO will accept older cabinets not necessarily to these standards, I have one of my Dads old ones (first Cabinet I ever had) which has been accepted, even though it goes back to another age, but my newer cabinets all meet BS7558:92. Now then, assorted safes from B&Q etc, etc; if these have BS7558:92 or better then their shouldn't be a problem, I understand a lot don't, but I also hear on various forums they get accepted. Best talk to your people for their view before forking out money on a DIY store safe if you can't find the BS Spec for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 This crops up from time to time and the answer is YES, your cabinet/FAC ammo store needs to be to BS7558:92. Then things get interesting, some regions/FEO will accept older cabinets not necessarily to these standards, I have one of my Dads old ones (first Cabinet I ever had) which has been accepted, even though it goes back to another age, but my newer cabinets all meet BS7558:92. Now then, assorted safes from B&Q etc, etc; if these have BS7558:92 or better then their shouldn't be a problem, I understand a lot don't, but I also hear on various forums they get accepted. Best talk to your people for their view before forking out money on a DIY store safe if you can't find the BS Spec for it! Can you reference a Firearms Act requirement for the BS standard? - I always understood the Firearms Act criteria was "adequately secure" which means a cabinet is not needed at all in law provided the security is OK. What a BS cab. does in effect, is to say that, subject to site placing and fixing, this cab will be OK and approval is practically certain - but any variety of storage means and cabinets may be acceptable in individual circumstances the FEO risk assesses on an inspection visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 This crops up from time to time and the answer is YES, your cabinet/FAC ammo store needs to be to BS7558:92. Well, not really! The Firearms Security Handbook section on ammunition says: Ammunition 2.47 Ammunition for section 1 firearms must be kept secure. As a matter of best practice, it should be stored in its own individual secure storage, eg an integral, lockable compartment within a gun cabinet. Although secure storage of shotgun cartridges is not a requirement of the Firearms Acts, it is sensible to recommend that they should be locked away for both security and safety, especially where there are children in the house. 2.48 Although ammunition is not a serious fire hazard, it is advisable that ammunition containers are not in an area exposed to a risk of fire, nor should they be in the area of an escape route where there is a fire risk. 2.49 If there is any doubt on the safety or method of intended storage, the Explosives Liaison Officer may be consulted. This is also recommended in the case where a private certificate holder intends to keep reloading articles such as gunpowder, primers or large quantities of cartridges etc. No mention of any BS standard it must be stored in only that it must be 'kept secure'. In the section on gun cabinets there are two options: a) a cabinet manufactured and fitted as certified to comply with BS7558:1992; or B) a cabinet fabricated to the following: And a long specification that would seem to include anything I have ever seen calling it's self a 'gun cabinet'! There is nothing to say it has to be to BS7558:92 - I know of two people who have made their own built in gun cabinets that have been police approved. If you whack a bike lock on the wardrobe chances are they wouldn't be happy http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/police/operational-policing/firearms-handbook-2005/firearms-security-handbook?view=Binary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Can you reference a Firearms Act requirement for the BS standard? - I always understood the Firearms Act criteria was "adequately secure" which means a cabinet is not needed at all in law provided the security is OK. What a BS cab. does in effect, is to say that, subject to site placing and fixing, this cab will be OK and approval is practically certain - but any variety of storage means and cabinets may be acceptable in individual circumstances the FEO risk assesses on an inspection visit. Good question and the immediate answer is no, which is why I guess I got away with my cabinet and others get away with DIY store safes. This is interesting nevertheless, and if anyone wants to go through it all perhaps they can advise if there is a specific legal reference or simply a guide! http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100408114924/http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/firearms-handbook2835.pdf?view=Binary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_h Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have an ammo box of similar construction to this but with 2 holes drilled into the lid for a padlock would this be suitable. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ammo-tool-box-/200563662792?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item2eb2869fc8#ht_1160wt_1139 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have an ammo box of similar construction to this but with 2 holes drilled into the lid for a padlock would this be suitable. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ammo-tool-box-/200563662792?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item2eb2869fc8#ht_1160wt_1139 I do very much doubt it. Thin steel, could easily be bent open and the hinge is external which is a big no no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Well, not really! The Firearms Security Handbook section on ammunition says: Ammunition 2.47 Ammunition for section 1 firearms must be kept secure. As a matter of best practice, it should be stored in its own individual secure storage, eg an integral, lockable compartment within a gun cabinet. Although secure storage of shotgun cartridges is not a requirement of the Firearms Acts, it is sensible to recommend that they should be locked away for both security and safety, especially where there are children in the house. 2.48 Although ammunition is not a serious fire hazard, it is advisable that ammunition containers are not in an area exposed to a risk of fire, nor should they be in the area of an escape route where there is a fire risk. 2.49 If there is any doubt on the safety or method of intended storage, the Explosives Liaison Officer may be consulted. This is also recommended in the case where a private certificate holder intends to keep reloading articles such as gunpowder, primers or large quantities of cartridges etc. No mention of any BS standard it must be stored in only that it must be 'kept secure'. In the section on gun cabinets there are two options: a) a cabinet manufactured and fitted as certified to comply with BS7558:1992; or B) a cabinet fabricated to the following: And a long specification that would seem to include anything I have ever seen calling it's self a 'gun cabinet'! There is nothing to say it has to be to BS7558:92 - I know of two people who have made their own built in gun cabinets that have been police approved. If you whack a bike lock on the wardrobe chances are they wouldn't be happy http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/police/operational-policing/firearms-handbook-2005/firearms-security-handbook?view=Binary The BS standard is simply a minimum, it is perfectly possible that people can build cabinets with no BS spec but to as good if not higher level. It may well be the BS spec is a guide to what will be automatically accepted, I have never heard of a BS7558:92 cabinet being refused. Interestingly, the quote above also says....should be stored in its own individual secure storage, eg an integral, lockable compartment within a gun cabinet Which does have the BS7558:92 attached to it, therefore, on that basis ammo also carries BS7558:92. Then again perhaps I'm wriggly a bit and BS7558:92 is just a guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I appreciate this is an old thread, but rather than start a new one and all that... I'm currently kitting out the house in preparation for an FEO visit re my FAC application. I hold an SGC as well as my wife. We share a shotgun cabinet and I know I'll need a separate one just for my guns for the FAC. My question relates to ammo storage though. We have a safe hidden in the house and nowhere near the guns to which we both have access currently. Is it likely to be acceptable to the FEO if I store my ammo in say a lockable cash box inside the safe? So effectively my wife can get to the cash box but not the ammo, or am I better off just changing the code so the Mrs can't get into the safe full stop? I don't really fancy the idea of a top locker just based on where my cabinets are/will be and how awkward it'll be to get ammo out of a top box. Cheers all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Yes, that should be fine, my FAC ammo is in an electronic safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Me and my Mrs are both SGC holders but on top of that am a FAC holder, we both have access to the cabinet but my fAC items have a steel safety chain though them to stop them being able to be removed so it stops the Mrs having access to them in effect ! FLO is happy with this, and ammo is stored seperately in an electronic safe ! Question for the reloaders though, what of your reloading components have to be locked up ? Cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Beautiful, thanks chaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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